Shoryureppa! The Ken Thread

[moocus]

EDIT: i misread br’s post. just want to say though, that ken needs to be pretty close in order for any normal to combo into super. as long as we’re keeping that in mind.

to actually hit-confirm into super off short though, you gotta have 2 of them. unfortunately hdr training mode options are lacking, so in order to practice just the hit-confirm aspect of it requires another person to randomly block. or you can just use ranked matches as training dummies once you drilled enough in training mode and can execute it as second nature.

i’ve been swamped with school lately, but the semester is coming to a close in a couple weeks. since this is a topic that many have been inquiring about, i plan on making a clear concise video on everything most people would ever need to know about this apparently puzzling part of ken’s game.

stay on my ass about it to make sure it gets completed though :tup:

[oldschool_BR]

For a single cr. short, you don’t need to kara-cancel. Just the normal special/super cancel is enough (i.e. nothing you need to do differently than just cr. lk xx super).

But this is much slower. An immediate cr.short comes out in 2 frames + delay while buffering would demand 3 frames for the first QCF (unlikely, this is for perfect execution only) + the time needed to the funky kick to be disabled again. Plus input delay, of course. This is something similar to why Ryu can buffer his super faster from cr.foward, even though fierce does a bit more damage: he must wait for the hadouken to be disabled before pushing the button.

[Murderbydeath]

Okay, I read 13 pages of this thread, and I’m tired of reading. What’s this option select jumpin strong DP I keep hearing about? How is it performed?

[BoggleMinds]

Okay, I read 13 pages of this thread, and I’m tired of reading. What’s this option select jumpin strong DP I keep hearing about? How is it performed?

How to do the built-in dragon punch:
super nohoho fighter ii x: Minimum Logic 1 - The Built-in Dragon Punch

[moocus]

you install a strong dp the moment the safe jump-in would connect. if they reversal, your dp comes out and beats whatever they reversaled with. if they block or get hit, you can follow up the jump-in with whatever blockstring/combo you want (the timing to pull this off so the jump-in and follow up can combo is really akward and takes a lot of getting used to). when watching aniken play hdr, you’ll notice he option strong dp installs frequently and usually follows up with crouch strong frame advantage shenanigans.

here’s a link to a video neoray did for a dp install with hawk. ken’s strong dp install works the same way.

[media=youtube]gDxmsszt4Lc&feature=player_embedded[/media]

[Murderbydeath]

How to do the built-in dragon punch:
super nohoho fighter ii x: Minimum Logic 1 - The Built-in Dragon Punch

Why thankee.

[Coth_X]

For a single cr. short, you don’t need to kara-cancel. Just the normal special/super cancel is enough (i.e. nothing you need to do differently than just cr. lk xx super). But like you said it’s not easy to confirm with just a single cr. short. Also just an additional cr. short is not ideal for punishing (say a dizzy).

For punish, an easy but ok damaging combo is to buffer qcf into low forward into qcf punch (super), which is the same as ryu’s low forward xx super.

Or if you have some distance, jump RH xx super is also very easy to do.

id like to be able to do the close hp xx super that i’ve seen in a video but that shit is hard even with the hp in the middle of the motion.

[moocus]

one time i saw mattsun dizzy a sim, i think it was hakase, and like a pimp he walks up and does stand fierce x super. i wish i had as much pimpness as mattsun does in just his left pinky.

[media=youtube]MG5qLyWG_fk"[/media]. so sick.

[GoldenArch]

one time i saw mattsun dizzy a sim, i think it was hakase, and like a pimp he walks up and does stand fierce x super. i wish i had as much pimpness as mattsun does in just his left pinky.

[media=youtube]MG5qLyWG_fk"[/media]. so sick.

You could’ve said that that was a combo video and I wouldn’t have known the difference. However, isn’t :hp: > super just a simple cancel? I can do :hp: > DP no problem, wouldn’t this be just a bit harder, or am I missing something?

[DNGR_S_PAPERCUT]

^ missing something. its really hard to do. super high level stuff. you have to buffer a qcf then go neutral to hit st fp, then complete the second qcf. if you try to just hit fierce and cancel into super, it will not come out.

[Cauldrath]

Isn’t cr. fierce almost as good, if not as good, and a LOT easier to do?

[YouLaggyPOS]

^ missing something. its really hard to do. super high level stuff. you have to buffer a qcf then go neutral to hit st fp, then complete the second qcf. if you try to just hit fierce and cancel into super, it will not come out.

Not that hard. If you can do neutral.HP -> dp, then you can do neutral.HP -> super without too much difficulty. All you have to do is buffer a qcf.

Or you can just do cr.HP -> super, which would be no different than your standard cr.MK -> super that you would do with ryu.

[DNGR_S_PAPERCUT]

unless you know something we don’t know. the st fp into super is one of the hardest super cancels to do in the game IMO.

cr fp into super is easy like you said.

The only useful thing I can think of for the st fp into super is with ryu. cross over jp rd into cr st 1 frame link into st fp into super. I think DGV is the only player that can pull something like that off.

with ken this combo wouldn’t work, the super wouldn’t reach. so st fp into super would just be for style points.

[moocus]

the whole point of comboing super off stand fierce is that it looks really, really cool. style points on that shit is off the charts. crouch fierce (the mexican uppercut)… not so much.

Not that hard. If you can do neutral.HP -> dp, then you can do neutral.HP -> super without too much difficulty. All you have to do is buffer a qcf.

on the first qcf buffer --> fierce, it’s suuper difficult not to get a fireball. there’s a sweet spot where you can delay the fierce just long enough not to get a fireball, while still having the game store the qcf buffer for the super. the timing is retarded, you need to be precise like a fucking surgeon. you don’t have to fake the funk with us.

but mattsun is all knowing. his pimpness should never be questioned. amen.

[GoldenArch]

This is where my lack of SF technique is exposed. Why is super easier to cancel from a cr. fp than :hp:? Aren’t you canceling a normal into super in each case? How does the crouching affect the situation?

[Rufus]

Not that hard. If you can do neutral.HP -> dp, then you can do neutral.HP -> super without too much difficulty. All you have to do is buffer a qcf.

Actually, the cancel window to do HP->dp is on the order of 19 frames while HP-> super is closer to 4. Also, you have to avoid overlapping with the dp or fireball commands when you the HP which either means careful planning, or very fast execution.

[Cauldrath]

This is where my lack of SF technique is exposed. Why is super easier to cancel from a cr. fp than :hp:? Aren’t you canceling a normal into super in each case? How does the crouching affect the situation?

For cr. :hp:, the motion is :qcf::d::hp::df::r::p:

For cl. :hp:, the motion is :qcf:, neutral, :hp::qcf::p:

If you press hp before going neutral, you’ll get a Hadoken. If you do it while holding down, you’ll get the cr. hp. So, it requires more precision to press it during the time you are neutral, and it requires a slightly more complicated motion, with going through neutral. For the cr. hp, you just need to hit the button sometime while you are holding down.

Time is also a factor. It is obviously easier to do two qcfs within the super’s input window than it is to do qcf, neutral, qcf, but you also get more time from the time you do your hp. You have to do the entire qcf after the button press with cl. hp, but you can already be at down when you press it with cr. hp, so you don’t have to travel as far within the short cancel window.

[papasi]

Can the st. fierce xx super still be done in HDR with the new 15 frames window?

For cr. :hp:, the motion is :qcf::d::hp::df::r::p:

I haven’t tried it but wouldn’t fb come out if you do this fast?

Maybe this is better?
:d::df::hp::r::d::df::r::p:

Also I would think that you need to hold :hp: without releasing it to avoid a negative edge fb coming out.

the timing is retarded, you need to be precise like a fucking surgeon.

In NCR interview Daigo said he trained very hard preparing for ssf4 tourney. I bet back in the days he also worked very hard to perfect these techniques, as he can do this multiple times without failing @ SBR according to fudd.

Here’s another quiz

What’s the proper motion to do cr. short, cr. short xx DP?

[oldschool_BR]

Explanation from noob to fellow noobs!

I guess there is a lot of misunderstanding, so I believe this should help people out:
[LIST=1]
[]Canceling normals into super is much harder than canceling normals into specials due to the following reasons: a) the motion is longer and b) super-cancel is disabled sooner than special-cancel;
[]It is possible to cancel normals into supers the “Alpha/EX/3rd strike way,” that is, pressing the button for a normal and then input the motion plus the button press, but due to reason b) above, it is basically only feasible with macros or programmable controllers;
[]Thus, because of that, to do circular motion super cancels in ST/HDR (renda-cancel aside) you must first input the first quarter-(or half, for Dhalsim)-circle-forward before pressing the button, then do the (any super-cancellable normal) button press, then QCF + punch right away.
[*]Because the super-cancel window is smaller than special-cancel, you have to do it right away! Or sort of… If you do it way too fast, you will cancel the move before it becomes active, that is, it won’t hit. If you delay too much, after the first 1-2 frames of impact freeze, either you will obtain nothing, or a special move.
[/LIST]

Now for fierce into super:
[LIST=1]
[]Imagine there is a sort of charge for a hadouken, which consists of not moving forward. As soon as you move forward, you “lose charge” for the hadouken in the sense that doing QCF+P will give you a shoryuken instead;
[]Similarly, imagine now that there exists a charge for normal fierce, which consists of not having just performed the motion for either a hadouken or a shoryuken;
[*]With this in mind, notice you can only do cl.fierce or cr.fierce into super if pressing the fierce button will not give you a special instead, in the first place. So, the motion is QCF, wait a bit so you do not get a hadouken, fierce, QCF + P.[/LIST]

Standing or crouching fierce into super is easier or harder depending on how fast you move the stick, just that. People with faster execution may prefer standing fierce so they do not cancel the move before it hits. I am slow, so QCF, wait, down + fierce, df, f + punch is more reliable.

*I assume the super is QCF x2 + P, Ken’s is actually QCF, d, df + P.

Edit2:

Maybe this is better?
:d::df::hp::r::d::df::r::p:

You will need to be fast for the last part of the motion, so super cancel is not disabled, and probably hold down fierce so you do not get a negative edge hadouken or shoryuken. I have tried it and failed every time.
Edit2:

What’s the proper motion to do cr. short, cr. short xx DP?

cr.short, (1) cr.short, then QCF x2 + (2) short, punch. (1) is the cr.short renda cancel, hits, (2) is a standing short renda cancel, but gets canceled into the super before even hitting.

Edit1: where’s zaspacer and his guide???

[DNGR_S_PAPERCUT]

I’d like to say that I can cancel st fp into super with my eyes closed. but the fact of the matter is that I can only do it with my eyes closed. which is cool and all, but not practical in game because actual game play requires “seeing” whats going on to play accordingly.