wow, didn’t think i’d get a discussion going. :tup: Cool stuff.
I think i’ll focus on cr. short x 2 xx super for now.
I didn’t want to comment on it, but I’d think the easiest way to do this cancel by hand is:
:qcf::d: neutral (short pause) :hp: :df: :p: (IIRC Ken’s super doesn’t require the full motion to :r:).
You can play timing tricks with input there so that the fierce punch will not produce a shoryu or hado.
This will definitely work if you can do the motion fast enough. (I’ve done it with my programmable controller.)
:d::df: neutral+:hp: :r::qcf:+:p:
^^I tried that, but wasn’t able to pull it off. Probably doing it too slow. However, I was never able to do the close Fierce, Super cancel before, and all this talk of it now though made me try it again, and I can now do it. Yay. :woot:
Moocus is right, you gotta do it fast. I can’t do the neutral Fierce method, so the method I use is back Fierce: :qcf: :l::hp: :qcf::p:. Going to back instead of neutral just feels more “natural” to me. shrug
The key to it is doing the qcf, Fierce just fast enough so that you don’t get a Hadoken. I realize now the reason I couldn’t do it before was cuz I was doing the Fierce too slow, thinking that any faster will get me a Hadoken. But you can actually do it pretty fast, and in fact, you have to.
Once you can do the Fierce fast enough, you also have to do the 2nd qcf Punch pretty damn fast too. Slightly faster than a regular cr Forward cancel for sure. IDK why this is, probably cuz it takes more time to go from f to neutral (or b) and back to d. But since I use the back Fierce method, I gotta do it even faster cuz I have more distance to cover. My timing between Fierce and the next punch is at almost piano speed (I piano Fierce, Jab, and that works for me).
A good way that I practiced the back Fierce method is by first practicing with back Jab so that I wouldn’t get a throw. This combo is truly awesome. :amazed: I can now do Strong, Super and Jab, Super and with Ryu close Forward, Super. Ryu’s Rushing Fierce, st Fierce, Super is really pimpin’. LOL But the best one is far Strong, Super with Ryu, kinda looks like Alpha 1 Ryu’s combo.
But I still can’t do cr Strong, st Fierce, Super on Zangief. :shake: Damn you DGV. LOL Workin’ on it tho’… = J
With your method of hitting back+Fierce, you’ll get the throw won’t you? This is assuming the opponent is out of block/hit stun (for example when you try doing neutral.Fierce xx super against a dizzied opponent. See 3:05 mark: [media=youtube]MG5qLyWG_fk[/media]).
Yes you would get a throw. That’s why I do it in a jumping attack combo:
j RH, Fierce, Super >>> Fierce, Super.
The jump combo version works on everybody but the usual suspects like Chun Li, Vega, Honda. For Ryu tho, it works on everybody.
Really not that hard to do for me… cr.Fierce xx super is easier, but st.Fierce xx super is not that much harder for me… Granted, I would probably never do it in a match, unless I was just messing around…
you’re saying it’s easy, but you’ve contributed nothing in terms of how to execute other than the obvious “you have to buffer a qcf”. this whole thing requires you to pay attention to very minute details, which blitz and rufus have pointed a few of them out in regards to executing this thing. all you’ve done is said how easy it is for you. it’s super easy and that you’re awesome.
so i guess what i’m trying to say is, nobody cares. i’d like to hear very specific details on execution from you, since you have it down like butter. everyone else is struggling, and you’re the only contestant in this dick waving contest. you get what i’m saying?
Calm down, my man. I never said I was awesome, just that this isn’t that difficult for me to do. What more info would you like me to describe for you? There have been many methods posted above already. Unfortunately, if what’s already been described doesn’t help you, I’m not sure what else to tell you…
Since I’m a nice guy, I’ll try to help you out. I do it the way Cauldrath described:
:qcf:,neutral,:hp::qcf::p:
I inject a slight delay between the first qcf and the rest of the motion/button presses. So:
:qcf: (slight/minute pause with stick at neutral) then :hp::qcf::p: (with the rest of this motion almost at piano speeds).
The timing of the neutral pause can be a little tricky, but perhaps I’m just used to it now. I think the best way to learn the amount of pause needed, would be to exaggerate it while first trying to learn it. With an exagerrated pause, you’ll just end up getting a st.:hp: xx fireball. Then slowly start reducing the amount of delay, until you get it down. If you don’t have enough delay, you’ll end up getting a fireball from the onset.
Happy? Or would you like me to post a video tutorial and hold your hand while you try to execute this?
you missed the point, i wasn’t being hostile. you being awesome and being the only contestant in the dick waving contest thing were supposed to be jokes, since it seems you’re the ONLY one here that has actually said that it’s easy for you (which singles you out from everyone else, understand?). it sucks that you jumped the gun with those personal attacks toward me. we’re all having trouble executing this, and you’ve said how easy it is for you… but you never really explained what makes it easy, or what details you pay attention to help with execution. i’m glad you finally posted about things that helps you execute this easier, but it’s a shame you have to be a fucking shithead in the process (the training method you described actually helps a lot).
if you want to continue this discussion, we’ll do it through pm’s. i’m not posting about this anymore.
You getting soft and sensitive on me now?
I apologize if you weren’t intending to be hostile with your initial post. Hope what I posted helps.
To anyone who gets a thousand hits usin kens knee bash (without usin turbo) lol what exactly are you pressing?? And is it possible to do usin a standard 360 controller?
I’m pretty sure stick movement are more important than button presses (same for shaking out of a hold).
According to cigarbob, you’ll get the fast version if you grab your opponent out of a move.
Then move your stick left and right diagonally in sync with the rhythm of ken doing the knee bash.
Button presses of course would help too.
Pretty much this, except there’s no “rhythm” to it, you just have to wiggle as fast as you can. I find that the fastest wiggle doesn’t even hit the gates of the stick, it just “vibrates”, for lack of a better word.
Interesting… ok thanks papasi and Thelo I’m gonna try it out!
@thelo, but to get mass number of hits, you still need to trigger the “fast” version of the hold.
you get more hits in fast version with no stick movement/button presses than you would get in normal version + mash like a madman.
actually there is at least one person (english speaking) who can answer all these questions
it’s the programmer hired to do the porting work @ backbone. he must have seen the dc source code and he would be able to get answers to everything.
too bad he’s either not a fan of ST (thus not interested in answering or visiting this forum) or he is not allowed to talk about anything that he learned from the source code.
[btw I played a few HDR matches on sat and the knee bash nerf is really not necessary… ken is no top tier and when opponent shake out of the bash in 2 hits it does so little damage…]
Too many things to list that were unnecessary :P.
Also, I pulled off ken’s standing fierce xx super the other day. Wasn’t in a real match, but got it about 7 times, that shit is hard lol.
If you wanna get out of grabs fast
:ub::df::ub::df::ub::df::ub::df: x infinite while I palm the buttons mashing them. I can get out in 1 hit most the time. Been accused of turbo on HDR a lot haha, kids just don’t know.
It isn’t really about the damage of the knee bash. It’s about the psychological ramifications of being put into a knee bash. Think about it:
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For the opponent, the flow of the match comes to a halt. You have to mash your way out of a throw using a motion which isn’t used in any other instance in the game (excluding moves like HHS or electricity). You literally have to drop everything you’re doing (charges, buffers, etc.) to get out of the hold which can be very jarring.
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After you get out, you have to be even more on top of your game. Ken is one sneaky bastard. He can walk under you (character specific), fake walking under you, jump towards you, cross-up, go for an overhead, or go for a sweep.
For all I care, Ken’s knee bash can do zero damage, but the various amounts of set-ups and bastardly shenanigans that come after a knee bash makes up for any amount of range or damage nerfing.
Can you elaborate? That’s the first time I hear this theory. What is this “fast version” you speak of, exactly?
You’ve never seen Ken’s turbo foot work Sirlin Jr.? It happens sometimes I think its if ken grabs them while they were inputting a special move input, he’ll start knee bashing extremely fast.
Not just ken, but all characters capable of a hold can trigger the fast version.
If you play the US ST arcade version, the cpu does that plenty of time (I guess it can grab you out of moves easily since the AI has 1 frame reaction time)