Good point, but I was under the impression that they made his flame srk trade more in hdr?
Honda’s jump normals don’t really trade with Ken’s Shoryukens. They’re not high priority like Dee Jay or Sagat’s jump normals. Other than the Sumo Splash, it’s really easy to Shoryuken an airborne Honda. Even a whiffed Jab Torpedo will get hit by the Fierce Shoryuken from like quarter screen range. Honda is just a punching bag for Ken lol.
Did they? I had the impression they didn’t change its vulnerability, only its arc and juggling properties.
He may have not changed it but he made sure to mention:
In summary, each dragon punch has its own use now:
jab - safest on block
strong - most invulnerable
fierce - biggest arc, juggles, hits on first frame, but **least invulnerable **and most unsafe
Perhaps it always had the least invulnerablity?
I know it trades alot at the top of the arc, because ive been hit out of it, and hit other people out of it. The moves were just standard jumpin moves. However, you shouldn’t be using it that much for that, hell the mp version has a great arc(can hit ryu at start if he throws a hado) and its invincible on the way up.
From playing some GGPO, I’ve been hit out of fierce DP’s at start-up also. But that’s just anecdotal.
startup? i was referring to the arc itself. ive never been hit out of its startup, but i dont use it much anymore either so thats a small sample of xp.
Hey guys,
I need tips for dealing with gief. I know how to fight him as guile, but that’s because it seems like guile’s legs are longer.
How do I deal with lariat?
I could use some tips for hawk too, a guy completed dominated me with footsies and pokes.
Wow that sentence sounds dirty. 
and vega.
I haven’t had too much trouble with Gief, but maybe that’s because I use him too, so I know his routines. Poking with cr.forward works Ok, and the recovery is decent so you can get out of the way. Obviously cr.roundhouse is fine too and the hitbox is a tiny bit longer than the forward version, so maybe mix up between the two. cr.roundhouse is more risky though due to the length of the move and the fact that Gief is able to use the hop move to clear your cr.roundhouse and piledrive you when he lands in range.
Make good use of fireballs. The weak fireball is sometimes a pain for Gief to jump over and can sometimes catch him out of the end of a lariat. Ideally you want to force Gief into using a lariat by throwing weak fireballs and then go in for a cr.forward or cr.roundhouse as he is spinning. If he uses the green hand and he is close enough, you may be able to hit him with a fierce hurricane kick due to the ass recovery on the move.
If your execution is good, you can try going for jump toward fierce punch xx roundhouse hurricane kick and cr.roundhouse as you land. The jumping fierce is decent for catching him during the lariat (the hitbox on his head as hit lariat only hits stuff in front of him like 50% of the time), the cancel into roundhouse hurricane is a free hit or two if the first connects and the cr.roundhouse is a guaranteed knockdown if timed right and counts as part of a 3/4 hit combo.
Get a feel for the type of Gief you are playing against. Do they like combos/chain hits, or are they all about knock down, tap SPD? For the knock down, tap SPD types, don’t be afraid to take a hit. Gief can be predictable and usually when he gets close, it’s to hit you with a weak attack and SPD or to knock you down. I find rather than blocking (which usually gets you locked in an SPD), just mash for reversal DPs instead of blocking. It seems to work fine against the more predictable Giefs, but don’t become predictable in the process.
Experiment with the hurricane kick. I find it can be pretty useful at times, but the danger is, if Gief blocks it, you are pretty much giving him an SPD for free, unless you throw or use a fierce DP or something as you land (but I guess the recovery on the hurricane can’t guarantee that will work).
As weird as it sounds, even attempt cross ups. Because of Gief’s huge hitbox and him being hard to cross up, most Gief users don’t expect it, so you may be able to score some free hits there.
The basic idea with Gief is to wear him down gradually. Never purposely get in close trying to land a fierce DP or super, that’s just asking for him to throw you, or block and catch you in the air (as I quite like to do).
As for Guile, you will probably find it easier dealing with Gief with Guile because the startup and recovery of his projectiles is much shorter than Ken or Ryu’s meaning you can throw one and sweep soon after. I guess Guile does have a longer hitbox too, but I haven’t checked it. The double sweep is a pain in the ass and catches people out.
Thank you, I usually reserve guile for this matchup, but in ranked/player the only/first match is always a pain if they use gief.
One more note I’d add in here is…don’t forget what works well on the CPU. 
Fierce Hadoukens thrown just before Zangief gets to his cr.:hk: range can be hard for him to deal with. Obviously, that works a whole lot better with Ryu than Ken, but you can mix it up between varying speeds and, of course, not throwing one at all and bait Zangief into a Lariat or Banishing Flat or a jump and then you get at least a 2 hit combo.
so i just got a dazzle thing and decided to have some fun with it. i made a quick video, which isn’t to be taken very seriously. i know there’s nothing very useful there, but i just wanted to feel like i didn’t piss away a chunk of money on the thing.
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Good video, but I would argue that sometimes, especially if you see certain habits of your opponent, than a dp opening isn’t necessarily bad. Its not a strat just a shenanigan.
The rest was good though.
Any tips on successful juice kicks? I can’t seem to get the motion fast enough.
i meant more or less throwing out a fierce shoryu from mid-screen, you wouldn’t believe how many times i’ve seen people do that.
for juice kicks, i still can’t do them very consistantly. they only work 60-70 percent of the time for me, but i just go up-forward and hcb from there. some guys do it by starting at down and rotating around to up-forward, but that’s beyond me.
Oh, I thought you meant right at the start of the round, sry bout that. Yeah I only whiff those if i badly anticipate a jump in.
The other day i went to hurricane in the air(something i need to stop), and accidentaly got a juice kick. I was like that’s not what I meant to do, and i landed right behind the other guy, who froze(i imagine he did a double take and yelled wtf! at his tv), and then a sec and a half later i swept while were both standing there and won.
Shit like that is why this game is so damn fun.
but then again, the damage of a jab shoryu is larger than a fierce against a jump in. allows for a better pressure game on wakeup since you recover so fast too. the only times i see fierce shoryu being useful is when you combo, reversal (piano input is a wheel of fortune), juggle after an anti-air super, or when they’re jumping away or straight up where the arc of a jab or strong shoryu can’t reach. guessing with it is generally a bad idea.
i’ve had that juice kick moment too, haha! except i was the only one surprised and frozen from shock. my shit got broke right after : /
I almost never use fierce srk. I use lp srk against grounded opponents (because it does a lot of damage and has really good recovery). I use mp srk as my anti-air because it’s completely invincible on the way up. I’ll use hp srk if I need that extra range or if I see Claw go for a wall dive. Hp srk will catch Claw even out of wall dive fake at most ranges (maybe even full screen?).
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so i made another video. i’m making these because they’re kind of fun so don’t bash too hard. i have 2 other ken videos i really want to make but would require some kind of commentary, so those will have to wait until i get a mic.
I agree, but so many times a ken has done random hp dp from just the right range to cross me up, and I go to punish only to find myself whiffing as he lands behind me.
In general though yeah like I said its a shenanigan, its only meant to be used if the opponent is predictable at all on opening.
However, I did test it alittle, and throwing jab hados at honda and using hp dp to control air space really does own him. You wont do extreme damage, but you will frustrate the crap out of them(which is what matters most).
You can put this in the info on the video, so that people don’t have to do what I did. I don’t expect people to do the actual research. Information is important!
When I say close to the wall, I mean so that they will pop up to max height and then get stuck on the wall for a few frames, this enough time to walk under in the corner.
I wouldn’t bother on gief cuz that’s asking for spd, the others though should be fine.
ah, good call. thanks!