agreed. I’ve had many try to cross me up off a whiffed shoryuken and they ate pain.
First of all, Ken’s Roundhouse crazy kick in a combo is for the most part unnecessary. Yes, it does kick the opponent to the wall. However, how often will you get a chance to use it? By the time you dizzy someone and execute this particular combo, they’re already almost dead. There’s no need to kick em to the wall. Shoryuken combos are effective and adequate.
There’s no way I would used the Roundhouse crazy kick as an anti-air either. Why would I? Shoryukens do just fine.
I’m against it because it gets in the way of your low roundhouse fireball game. The roundhouse crazy kick tends to come out when you desperately need a fireball to come out. An advanced player will need to be very mobile with his roundhouse. Moving back and forth and being able to execute low roundhouse + fireball smoothly. This is where the crazy kick command gets in the way and is counterproductive. Makes you vulnerable as well.
The cons far outweigh the pros in this case, which is why i prefer it removed. I can play Ken at a very high level without it.
I have a question for you guys. Does the knee throw have as much distance advantage as the regular fierce or roundhouse throw? I ask because there are crucial moments when I feel I am adequate close to the opponent, but somehow MISS the knee throw… Sumthins… up.
If any of you want to play… I use my lil bro’s account and I only play as Red suited Ken. RODNEYKINGG with 2 g’s at the end is the screen name.
Short Answer
It does not. One of the changes from ST to HD Remix was that they made the throw range smaller for the knee-bash throw.
Long Answer
The range on Ken’s knee-bash, Dhalsim’s noogie, and Balrog’s throw were all nerfed. The idea behind these changes was that by making their throw range smaller it’d make doing repeated loops of throws worse. But the only way the loops are worse is that you can’t throw from that magic spot that’s just inside your throw range and just outside theirs. Which, of course, only applies in some match-ups. In essence, now your opponent can gamble by trying to counter-throw your tick-throws in addition to using the more dependable reversal move counter.
Personally, I’m not a fan of these changes. In practice, I find that throw loops work just as good/bad as they did before. The only real change in my gameplay is that it’s sometimes harder to land an initial throw and/or I mis-judge the distance and get a normal attack when I go for a throw. But oh well, it’s not a huge change.
ah, I see. Thanks for the info. I knew sumthin was up.
I challenge anyone to prove the effectiveness of the roundhouse crazy kick (other than in a combo). If I am somewhat impressed, I will paypal you $20.
p.s and the switch side technique is a joke too. It only works on one side anyways.
I would go so far to say that Ken would be indeed top tier and argueably the best in the game if his roundhouse crazy kick was removed. I’m already tearing shitttt up with it. He’s the only character I feel has the potential and arsenal to take on any character in the game with minimal disadvantages given enough discipline and knowledge of the match-ups. If you disagree… bring it. I will show you. RODNEYKINGG on ps3. Red suited Ken. That’s all you need to know.
Whoever thinks Ken is mid tier or low tier must have low level shoto skills. High level shoto players can adapt to ANY situation. You can’t lockdown a high level shoto player for long. Dont you forget that.
Given the talent I’ve seen online with shoto players, there’s very good reason to rate Ken and Ryu mid to low tier. An avg. Ken and Ryu player is very easy to beat. Therein lies the problem. If you are an average player and think basically, the game has inherent disadvantages for shoto players. HOWEVER, as you advance in your skill level, you will learn to develop what I call, “The Tiger’s Eye.” It is when you learn to develop cat like reflexes complimented with decisive and smooth execution of moves. It is when you can see through all the BS in the game and learn to utilize the tools you have to gain an advantage in critical situations during a match up. You actually have to “out think” and out execute your opponent to gain an advantage whereas some characters such as Honda for example, dont have to do much thinking to gain an advantage. If you can effectively learn to out think your opponent, all the tools you need to win are there. That’s all I gotta say. My biggest pet peeve is when someone gives up on a character simply because they are not generally seen as being top tier or have fighting disadvantages by design. I call those people , “PUSSIES,” and I will beat your ass to the ground RODNEYKINGG style when I see you online. It will take time to learn a match-up. Not only that, people play certain characters with different styles. Don’t expect to win the first time around.
Lol, I want to think i beat you with my guile before, but I haven’t played HDR in a while.
Really, people don’t base tiers off online exp, they do it with theory with pros.
Where are the pros playing offline? I would like to know when and where.
If it wasnt red suited Ken, it wasn’t me. If you would like to test your guile skills with me, you are more than welcomed.
I’ve played you before Rodneyking, and I wasn’t impressed. If you want to play a good Ken, add me, blitzfu. I RARELY get the RH Crazy Kick when doing sweep>Hadoken. Maybe 1 out of 10 times. You’re prolly just negative edging the RH. You gotta practice more. Do it like this: b,db + RH,d,df,f>Hadoken.
that is where you made a mistake. what about walking forward ? If you can’t walk forward and execute your low roundhouse fireball game, you will be at a major disadvantage.
Suprisingly you haven’t beaten me before blitzfu. Out of all the people, you should know Ken is very hard to beat. I play very careful against Ken. Your tricks wouldnt work on me either, so I wouldnt be too impressed with your Ken as well. We can play 1 on 1 to 50 and you will clearly see my skill level.
RealO.GKen:
For all I know, you might be the next Ed Ma…but your arrogance is disgusting.
Arrogance? check yourself. Go back and read my posts and you will see that I have not made a personal comment against anyone, yet two individuals have made personal references against me. If you’re going to make a personal reference against me, you better back it up. If you don’t want any of this, dont put my name in any of your negative comments. simple as that. You got it all twisted … its the other way around.
^^
All I know is that blitzfu just told you how to “remove” the Roundhouse Krazy Kick from your cr.:hk: XX Hadouken trap because you didn’t realize that you were Negative Edging it and because you couldn’t come up with the solution that he just gave you. Also note that my main has been Ken since WW, so if this was as insurmountable a problem as you claim it is, I would’ve been complaining since ST first came out. It hasn’t been a problem then…it wasn’t in CvS2…and it isn’t now. It’s an execution thing.
Parabellum called it right…it’s arrogance…and it’s not cute. Note that definition of arrogance is…thinking of yourself more highly than is realistically warranted. Note the picture of an inflated ego next to the definition.
A light should’ve went off in your head when you saw that you were the only person complaining about that move since HDR has come out. It’s always better to state that you have a problem with something and ask how to overcome it than to just complain. That’s called…humility.
“Tiger’s eye” are you kidding me?
These comments are the basis for my statement.
Again, you might be the best ken player on the planet, but saying these things SOUNDS like arrogance.
Someone who IS really as good as you claim to be, should have the humility to temper their ego.
Someone who is not as good as you claim to be, should not go around speaking as if they are an expert.
I WAS talking about walking forward > sweep > Hadoken. Just add a forward to my original description and you will see it makes sense. Like this: f,b,db + RH,d,df,f>Hadoken.
Talk is cheap. Add me, and we’ll do this.
Ooooh! It’s on up in here!
By the way, I’m not sure that you even need the :l: direction in that. Just going from :r: to :db: should give you enough inputs not to get a :hk: Krazy Kick or a Shoryuken. I mean…haven’t we been working around getting the wrong move to come out when walking forward and doing cr.:hk: XX Hadouken since World Warrior? (Ok…Hyper Fighting for me. Didn’t know about combos back then.) It’s the same basic principle that you use to avoid having a Shoryuken come out. It’s…like…Shoto Street Fighter 202 or something.
All I’m trying to say is that this isn’t a new problem.
I would love to hear the outcome if this really happens.
God I wish we could get video capture too.
:tup:
Do you know me? Do you know my skill level? How do you know im not an expert on Ken. Ive been playing since World warrior days and championship edition days. My example was only to encourage players to stick with shotos players who otherwise wouldve given up because of inherent disadvantages. Did I say anything that was incorrect or are you just jealous that I can be successful with shoto characters and know what Im talking about? I know Ken and Ryu can be effective and top tier and Im sorry if you took my advice as arrogance. Im keeping it real. Ken and Ryu are good. I rarely post to begin with and I am posting this in a shoto character thread. Im not posting this in a guile thread. Did I direct a negative comment towards anyone in particular prior to negative comments directed at me? I don’t think so.
The fact that you listed “f” then “b” before you even do “db” shows how slow you would be in an aggressive close range attack.
All Ryu has to do is f, df RH d , f Punch (no backward movement at all) . Sit and think about if for a second and think about how much quicker your attack would be. This is how it was in WW, CE, and HF. In ST, all sorts of crazy kicks got in the way ( I never liked or seriously played ST by the way).
Sooner or later you will realize what I’m talking about. Landing that quick low roundhouse is key for positioning. I would say the crazy kick comes out 20-30% of the time during intense combat. It shouldn’t be coming out at all. Im telling you guys right now… this is Ken’s Achilles heel. This is what I feel is holding me back big time. I wouldn’t post in length if it wasnt a big deal. I dont know about you guys.
Blitzfu. We will definitely be playing. You play during the weekands?
ALOT of experts don’t post. So don’t assume that I don’t know what Im talking about just because you’ve never seen me around. Experts usually tend to keep a few tricks up their sleeves.
You guys want to know who’s a REALLY REALLY strong Ken player? You’d be surprised if I told you guys.
ALEX VALLE. That’s right. I said it. That’s for the record. I’ve played him in Anniversary as Hyper Ken. His Ken is by FAR better than Aniken’s Ken. By FAR. Near flawless execution. Aggressive. Strategy is not super solid, but still far beyond most people’s. Possibly because he plays too aggressive. This was ST Ken too. I can’t imagine how strong his game play would be in HD. However, he doesn’t post a goddamn thing in this thread or any other Ken thread and most would think his Ken is trash. FAR from it.
So yes, I have played a very good ST Ken player before. I know what a good Ken player plays like and I know where I stand. I highly doubt I will play an ST/HD Ken stronger than his … ever.