Shoryureppa! The Ken Thread

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
441

^^

Just to add one more thing to that great block of advice, I would also look to throw out a jab Hadouken whenever you’re outside of Guile’s Backfist range. If you do that intelligently enough, you can mix “fake” Hadouken attempts in there (you know…OG style…duck, stand up, and jab) and possibly get Guile to jump (because we all know how long it takes Ken to throw a Hadouken so he’s just gotta be open when he throws one, right?). If you get Guile to jump and you faked a Hadouken, Ken has some pretty nice Shoryuken juggles. :slight_smile: Once he stops jumping, though, then you give him fits on the ground by following it in and mixing in something that almost had it’s own thread…the jab Shoryuken…'cause you know he’ll try to hit you. :slight_smile:

Ken has a good ground game when you follow in his projectiles. Obviously not as good as Guile, but you need to make him think as much as he’s making you think. Then, once you make him just about curl up into a fetal position by holding down-back, you can echo one of the greatest quotes in movie history from Darth Vader, “I HAVE YOU NOW!” It’s Knee Bash Shenanigan time, baby!

442

Actually it’s funny, I thought I knew the Ken vs Guile matchup inside and out, but I recently played a very good Guile who was giving me a run for my money, meaning he was kicking my ass left and right.

I always relied on Ken’s Hadokens to force Guile into jumping, but against this Guile, he was keeping up with the fireball battle. Usually if I use only Fierce Hadokens, it takes about 4 of those before Guile HAS to jump or block. But against this Guile, it would take like 6 or 7. He just kept answering with Sonic Booms, and even though he would eventually jump, it was frustrating to me that I had to work harder at the fireball war with Guile than I’m normally used to.

So I picked Guile and picked a fireball fight with some Kens, and yes, if Guile truly wants to, he can answer Ken’s Fierce Hadokens about 5 or 6 times with his Fierce Booms. Plus, I found out that opening the beginning of the round against Ken with Fierce Sonic Boom will beat his Fierce Hadoken startup.

I played that good Guile again (this was during the last week), and confirmed that Ken opening with Fierce Hadoken will always be beat by Guile’s Fierce Sonic Boom. I haven’t tried Jab Hadoken, but I think it will be beat clean too. I know Ryu’s Hadoken cannot be beat, but I didn’t know about Ken. Not that it’s a good idea to open with Hadoken against Guile (Short or Forward Somersault will beat it clean), but I always thought Boom could not beat Ken’s Hadoken.

These are little points for sure, and overall the match is still in Ken’s favor IMO, but it’s just weird that I found these things out only recently. Damn, I already knew that Ken has the worst non-charge projectile in the game, but now it seems that Guile has a projectile almost as good even though it’s charge.

Also, can anybody confirm that Ryu can Tatsu through Ken’s Hadokens like HF? I did meaty Short Tatsu with Ryu on a Ken waking up with Hadoken and hit him clean.

443

^^

Looks like more people are using the charge :l::r::l:+:p: command to throw Sonic Booms these days. It’s a very good trick.

444

Yeah, but its better to go to db then b. Its also great since you can sometimes get a flash just barely charged in time for a farther jump from some people.

My tax return should arrive in about 2 weeks. Looks like I might go for a hori real arcade. Then I can play as ken regularly yay!

Sirlin didn’t change anything about ryu’s tatsu, so it should theoretically do whatever it did in ST.

I got to try out SFIV and I have to say I was pretty impressed. It won’t replace HDR, but I feel like I will be playing it much more.

445

Hey guys, after working on this thing for at least a month, I think I may finally have a finished FAQ. But, I need your help in checking my work.

Check out these combos. I know some of them may not be all that practical, but what I really need to know is whether or not they work. Use the following key as you read.

, = Link Combo

  • = Chain Combo or Rapid-Fire Chain
    XX = 2-in-1 or Special/Super Move Cancellation
    NE = Negative Edge
    MP = Motion Partitioning
    CP = Charge Partitioning
    KC = Kara (Empty) Cancellation
    RC = Renda (Rapid-Fire Chain) Cancellation
    SC = Super Combo
    TT = Tick Throw
    @ = Dizzy Combo
    R@ = Re-dizzy Combo
    ToD = Touch of Death Combo

Basic Combos:

  1. Crouch short, Hold or Throw (TT)
  2. Crouch strong, Hold or Throw (TT)
  3. Crouch fierce XX Fierce Hadouken
  4. Crouch short XX Roundhouse Hurricane Kick

Intermediate Combos:
3. Close fierce XX Jab Shoryuken
4. Crouch strong, crouch roundhouse
5. Jump fierce, close fierce XX Roundhouse Hurricane Kick
6. Jump roundhouse, crouch forward XX Fierce Hadouken
7. Jump roundhouse, close forward XX Krazy Ken Kick 2 (with or w/o overhead)
8. Jump fierce, crouch strong, Shoryureppa SC

Advanced Combos:
9. Meaty close roundhouse (2 hit), crouch forward XX Fierce Hadouken
10. Jump fierce, close fierce XX Krazy Ken Kick 3 (w/o overhead)
11. Jump fierce, crouch strong, crouch short XX Roundhouse Hurricane Kick
12. Jump roundhouse, close fierce (NE) XX Shoryureppa SC
13. Jump fierce, crouch short, crouch strong XX Krazy Ken Kick 1 (w/overhead), crouch roundhouse
14. Jump fierce, crouch short, crouch strong XX Krazy Ken Kick 1 (w/overhead), Shoryureppa SC
15. Jump fierce XX Roundhouse Aerial Hurricane Kick, Throw (TT)
16. Jump fierce XX Roundhouse Aerial Hurricane Kick, crouch forward XX Fierce Hadouken
17. Cross-up forward, close fierce XX Jab Shoryuken (ToD)
18. Cross-up forward, crouch strong, crouch forward XX Krazy Ken Kick 1 (w/o overhead)
19. Cross-up forward, crouch strong, crouch forward XX Krazy Ken Kick 1 (w/overhead), crouch roundhouse (ToD)
20. Cross-up forward, crouch short (x2)-close short (KC) XX Shoryureppa SC
21. Meaty Jab Hadouken, Roundhouse Hurricane Kick, Fierce Shoryuken
22. Meaty Jab Hadouken, Roundhouse Hurricane Kick, Shoryureppa SC
23. Jump roundhouse, crouch strong XX Roundhouse Hurricane Kick, Fierce Shoryuken (ToD)
24. Jump roundhouse, crouch strong XX Roundhouse Hurricane Kick, Shoryureppa SC (@)
25. Jump jab XX Aerial Juice Roundhouse Hurricane Kick, crouch fierce (MP) XX Shoryureppa. (In corner on Sagat)

446

^^

I should mention that the Krazy Kicks are labeled according to the way they were in Vanilla ST. You’ll have to substitute the appropriate kicks for the appropriate HD Remix execution.

Krazy Kick 1 should be the :qcf:+:mk: kick. (The best one to combo with because it’s the easiest to follow up.)
Krazy Kick 2 should be the :qcf:+:lk: kick.
Krazy Kick 3 should be the :qcf:+:hk: kick.

I hope that’s right.

447

I tested Ken’s crazy kicks out some more and found out you can get all 3 kicks from any kick button. I was just doing one kick, for example: :qcf::lk: then immediately do the old motions for whichever kick I want, IE: :r::df::d::lk: / :qcf::lk:/:hcf::lk: and getting the original crazy kick that was associated to that motion. Lame sauce. Any way, it doesn’t change much but it can mess you up if you do it accidentally.

448

This is even more-so true in HDr; most notably his jab and fierce DPs. Outside of these changes, I think Ken is exactly the same as he was in ST. I always felt Ken was not a major player in the original ST, and I still feel he’s low on the totem pole in HDr. He’s certainly not as effective as other fireball/projectile characters… even a good Guile / DeeJay can keep a distanced Ken entertained playing tit-for-tat cancelling projectiles. This is why I feel Ken isn’t as dangerous against very good zoning players… if we’re talking about Ken’s effectiveness outside fireball guys, that’s a whole different ball game.

I’ve always enjoyed playing the Ken VS Chun or Ken VS Sagat match-up. Due to Chun having to use her jumping game as an effective measure of winning (unless you’re just god-like with the timing of her fireballs and charging her anti-air kick) it makes the Ken VS Chun match-up entertaining. Sagat due to his vulnerable size becomes easy picking for Ken’s strong DP or close enough jab DP. Sagat at a distance can keep Ken in check, but when the gap is closed it becomes Ken’s domain.

449

blitzfu
have we played each other before?

ill add u when i get home…2wks time.

hd>sf4

450

hmm, i cant seem to get by this.

whenever i go against ken players they do their super and as i go up to them to throw when they land i either: A) get thrown or B) get flaming srk’d. it comes out instantly as they land so how do i go and throw them as they land. if possible?

451

You CAN throw him, but you need amazing timing. Most of the time, it’s not worth it. Your best best are to find a good Juggle move and hit him out of the air. If you don’t have that, just punch him with Fierce or whatever before he lands. I’ve seen toooooo many matches lost from people trying to punish the Super. Hit it out of the air with a Fierce, and go from there. Unless you REALLY NEED THE COMEBACK, it’s the best option you have.

  • James
452

That and you can could catch him with a cross up. However, if he srks, then the cross up will air hit him, and you’ll end up will less damage anyways.

453

No we haven’t.

Interesting…I’mma try that to see if it’s practical.

454

same-Blitz you been killing me lately- got you a stick huh?

455

Nah Dmac, still no stick. I’m on a Sega USB pad and dis shit iz da bomb! LOL

456

Crossing up a srk isn’t exactly hard on wakeup, since the person would have to do the modified srk command to reverse you which I only expect the top pros to do (hell I can’t even reflexively do a srk motion yet). The problem is that most crossups are going to be a lk type and you are just going to sacrifice damage. I might reccomend this if you down him while you are backed into the corner, at least then you escape that situation.

The fierce dp might catch you just due to its launch speed. So i’ll stop with the theory fighter for now.

EDIT: Blitz, I just got my Hori FS3 the other day. Its not as loose as I expected, but srks can definitely be a pain. I also found out that the “easier motions” thing is in iv too. If you do f,d,df,f you will get a srk instead of a hado. Guile(hdr) and chun(iv) are definite goes with me. I’ll have to work back into the whole shoto thing.

It took me two days to get used to playing on it. I don’t think I could go back to a pad now.

457

Whether it’s a Shoryureppa or a regular Shoryuken, Ken’s DP only has 3 recovery frames upon landing. So, online, thanks to connection hiccups and stuff like that, it can be very hard to punish upon landing. Offline, you can still get thrown if your timing is off. That’s why the consensus (for the past few months) has been to hit him before he lands. In the case of the Shoryureppa, that’s the time to go back to your pre-comboing days and air-throw him…if you’re using someone with an air-throw.

Edit: My bad! T.Abika’s Frame Data says the Shoryureppa only has TWO landing frames. Whoa. Online…I say you’d better hit him in the air. Offline…in the air is the safe way to go for sure.

458

Strange, I throw on EVERY DP whiff (except for jab dp, that gets swept) and out of doing this hundreds of times, only ONCE has ken successfully landed, recovered, and hit me before I could throw him.

I guess I’ve been pretty lucky.

However, since both my main chars have air throws (guile, chun) I certainly could take the safer route…

:china:

459

thanks J. now its easier to get them now since after i hit them they usually walk back so i get the throw regardless.

460

You’re right OJ. The best tactic against a whiffed Ken Shoryuken (not including the Jab Shoryuken) is a throw or a mid air attack. I’ve tried the crossup tactic, and it’s not practical. It’s better to just hit him out of the air or just throw. Online hiccups don’t allow for any fancy combos or shit.