Niggas just don’t understand. You can put Claw in situations where he is basically fucked. He really can’t do much. Get a knockdown and safe jump OS the fuck is he gonna do? He can’t block either because he loses mask/claw. So, yeah he literally can’t do anything. How does giving him an invinicbile ex ST make him different? His goal is still the same. Quick pokes, footsies, mobility and evasiveness. Only now he would be less free. that’s all. A better backflip won’t do anything. Know why? Because a backflip isn’t going to make Sagat respect Claw on wake-up. It just means he cross you up and has a little less time to punish, so he has to react faster. That’s all.
Claw needs a tool that’s gonna make characters say whoa, I need to respect this guy when he’s knocked down.
Faster backflips wont prevent Sagat from punishing with a kara-Tiger Knee or Tiger shots. Backflips were only useful in ST because of how fast the game was. KKK backflip literally lasted less than half a second. That doesn’t leave much time to punish it. Yet since SF4 is alot slower than ST, backflips are easily predicatble and easily punished. Know why they’re predicatble? Its because Vega doesnt have Inv. Frames on ST, therefore has no answers for jump-ins, therefore resorts to backflip to evade round-ending chip damage…which leads to an easy punish.
I agree. It’s obvious to anyone who’s played a truly good Ryu, Sagat or Akuma that Vega really needs something to threaten other characters with so they don’t just fuck with him to their hearts content on wake up. I mean even as someone who’s admittedly just a lower range player I’d say this is obvious.
Yeah I’m not sure why people think it’s ok for a bunch of characters to have “fuck you, get off me” shoryuken type moves and then other characters like Vega don’t have shit so you can just fuck with them all you want on knockdown.
Bang Shishigami (and to a much lesser extend Makoto) says hi. Admittedly these are intentional states you enter, as opposed to “this character can never block”, and both have access to tools like block (parry, barrier), but still, such a character could be made, and made to be balanced.
I. Frames on EX ST at least would be good. All regular STs need is maybe a faster startup. Other than that, most AA specials aren’t invincible in this game, unlike in Super Turbo. If they brought that back for Vega it wouldn’t be a good balance change unless they brought it back for everyone, else Vega has one of the best AA specials, which his game was never built around.
Ryu - SRK, EX SRK
Ken - MP SRK, EX SRK
Akuma - SRK, EX SRK
Sagat - Tiger uppercut, EX Tiger uppercut
Chun-Li - EX Spinning Bird Kick (Counts as an AA because thats its main function)
Bison - EX Psycho Crusher(mainly used as AA)
Zangief - Lariat
Fei Long - Burning Kick, EX Burning Kick
Cammy - Cannon spike, EX cannon spike
Honda - Butt Slam, EX Butt Slam, EX Headbutt
Guile - EX Flash Kick
Boxer - EX Headbutt
C.Viper - Fierce Thunder Knuckle
Rufus - EX Snake Strike, EX Messiah Kick
ELFuerte - Guacamole Leg throw (never lands as a meaty jump in AA, but it is an AA and it does have invincible start up frames)
Gen - Bicycle Kick…thing
DAN - SRK, EX SRK
Sakura - EX SRK
^^
Read the entire post and notice that he’s talking about normal ST (and makes a good point). Flaming based on half-reading posts needs to stop now. How many more pages do you want to stretch it out for?
Damnit Sasaki, messing up my post and forcing me to edit. :mad:
I’d seriously love starting to quote everyone here and prove them wrong, but this is taking too much time.
No view, you need to start reading. Someone made a comment about returning him to his ST Vega glory days, and I replied that he was never a in glory, which is why he got nerfed. And what do I get? Explanations, why ST didn’t make him OP in ST, when I didn’t even lose a word about the move. lol
He never clearly stated that he was only talking about Non-EX AA’s. It wasn’t half-reading, it was misinterpreting what he meant based on bad wording.
Comparing Vega’s ST to any other Special AA in terms of vulnerability on start up is ludacris. Speeding up the ST won’t change its terrible priority when you have a meaty fist in your face.
I’ve been on vacation for a few days now, only to come back and see this thread filled with mostly nothing but total garbage. Vega doesn’t need invincibility frames on his Scarlet Terror. Get it through your thick skulls already. If you can’t accept that, then pick a different effing character. There are 34 of them.
It’s no wonder why certain high level tournament Vega players that actually win with him no longer bother posting at the website all together. Too many hot headed overall jerks spewing crap left and right.
its funny how all the vega players over here stand by the same thing while the rest of the lot seems to ask for properties which would change vega as a whole compared to his current build.
seriously guys,
for one last time,the sf4 vega with a couple of tweaks that we’ve already mentioned would make him an all around balanced character without the invincible st.
People like to say “ST Vega was not broken”. But he was stupid! And the only reason he was not broken is others characther’s stupidities! Like, Balrog auto-pilot rush down, E. Honda “down-back beats everything” defense AND throw loops, O. Sagat FBs, Dhalsim’s throw loop, Chun-li’s 80% damage storable super etc. Those kept the game balanced and they aren’t in SF4.
If we give Vega the ability to control air and ground holding down-back, he would be just a better Balrog. And I just want a better Vega. Better footsies, safer offense, chip damage options, more speed, better slide, better dash, and not lose claw and mask that quick!
I’d like to have ONE escape option, however. My sugestion was to give armor to the ascending part of EX FBA.