^
Current ST beats jumps on ascent and at the peak, but loses/trades with descending jumps. This, plus the ability to juggle into another ST/EX ST for extra damage makes it useful as a situational AA. Vega has other AA options for ascending/peak jumps atm, but has no reliable answer for descending jumps. That’s the problem with his AA (which a proper low fierce can fix).
because all it takes is a dumbass to answer your question.
you can indeed get out of a rushdown by a not so predictable flip on wake up.especially if the opponent tries to cross you up.its possible.
but it would be better if the recovery of the flip is lessened.cause as it stands,more than a couple of flips in the game would make you look predictable.
Its possible against people who dont know the match-up. With the people I play against, you flip, you eat a combo or get tripped.
I was in a party with some guy a week ago and I heard him rambling on and on about how much he hated Vega’s backflips. I just laughed to myself and showed him how easily punishable they are. He quit complaining about Vega’s backflips soon thereafter.
I know form super turbo and hd remix, guile’s flashkick is a much better tool than vega’s st. his scarlet terror was really easy to crossup due to where it hit, and it was worse at counter hitting low normals, plus flashkick was more invincible.
It is definitely a strong move, but compared to other anti airs in the game, it was actually not that good. Definitely not a be all solution, which some of you make it out to be
hmmmmm
cause im an infintely better vega player than you.
let me break it down for you,
st does like 160 damage and some 200 stun
we’ve already covered that you can have plenty of sucecs with it as a situational anti-air. if you’re preemptively defending against jump ins, you can cover meaties with an ST that punishes their landing, and cover attempts at being ST with a preemptive air grab. they’re vega’s 2 best anti-air options cause they’re the least likely to get beat. at it’s peak it goes straight up vertically meaning only moves that can get around vega’s leg and hit him are going to beat it, which is very few, so you’re more likely to trade with flat hitbox moves like ryu’s j. rh, but even those get beat more often than not. if you get one hit, you can just use another. you’re building great meter and you’re doing some good damage and stun.
now, to whoever said a speical that you can only combo into sucks, let me explain why YOU are wrong
playing footsies with someone, hit someone with a cosmic heel. even if you block, just backdash out and you’re usually at a good situation. in most matches you have to be careful as if you get into jab range you can get grinded up but that’s why you save the cosmic heel for characters with worse footsies, like shotos, abel, gouken, you name it. it works on pretty much everybody but is noticeable bad against Chun Li. Meaties on certain characters are effective enough, and it of course functions as Vega’s most versatile corpse hop. now, if you combo into an HK ST out of a cosmic heel, what options do you have? well, you can do whatever you want now. you can corpse hop in 3 different ways, one of which is the step forward, cosmic heel, which is extremely ambiguous and is my main way of hitting close fierce, c. strong, EX FBA for a good 380 damage and now the izuna vortex being set up, or you can safe jump, or you can begin the izuna vortex here if they don’t tech, or you can get some momentum going with RCF FADC’s and meaties into kara throws. hitting an ST is, aside from an izuna (but even arguably not because after hitting an izuna you can only corpse hop by use of cosmic heel) the best position Vega can possibly be in. if at any point someone is commited to a movement that then allows vega to roam freely around the arena, then that’s just what he wants. you have the whole arena to use shenanigans and your most solid stuff (safe jumps). so people i play generally get fucked over immensely the second they get hit by a scarlet terror. and it’s easy enough to do, becaes it has an amazing set up in cosmic heel, which is safe, and does great damage with it like 250 and 300 stun, or a lot more if you use EX ST, and it works great as a situational anti-air.
there, i dropped some knowledge onyou.
I feel if it makes vega better and gets rid of his “knockdown…try anything you want on me, al i can do is guess right to avoid it, never punishing you” then it should be implemented… we are playing a character that above his limited options, gets Seth health somewhere in the round, with more limited reach as our equipment falls off.
How is it fair that we have no option that lets us get out of a situation without atleast getting focus absorb hit/ multiple block hit/ tech wich ALL count to our mask/claw counter. And that is if we do everything 100% right.
Im not even talking about how stupid the mask thing is… only about the unfair way we lose it.
I dont care if its ST, better ppp/kkk or better normals, but something has to happen there.
Also i think some of the good vega’s should consider players that DONT get to that that level, and DONT have a competitive community…
For example:
i have no tournament scene close to me to get obscenely good in this game or play the game offline…
I want izuna’s to be simpler to land especially on moving focus attack hitboxes… but I gets scolded at by good vega’s saying i need to practice harder… :shake:
I can almost exclusivly play on xboxlive, and the game asks me to plant izuna drops like a damn brain surgeon, calculating his angle, time in air, miliseconds of lag… i get any of those wrong and i lose 30-50% health in the first combo and after that im on the ground and they can start another assault free of charge…with my equipment running out or already off… i can only run.
I have become adequate at it, but why cant i say on this forum that one of the things i want is a better izuna drop grab range without getting called a Vega noob?
And what would break if everyone can reliably land the izuna drop who pick vega for the first time???.. it will still lose to the stuff it does now. Its a damn special move … people should always be able to pull it off consistently not train for months to do it. I didnt need to train to pull of the Hadouken… i needed to train how to zone with those things.
One needs to learn when to use izuna drop, not how to land it.
Unless someone is jumping in to do a meaty on you in the corner right on your wake-up. Or if they are trying to cheese you out with Ultra.
That sounds more like a testament to how awesome cosmic heel is than an argument for ST being good. Not saying you’re wrong though. Definitely a solid argument for why ST shouldn’t be invulnerable.
Still not convinced he shouldn’t get it, but I can at least see why people would turn it down now. Good post.
I really want Seth to Demo Vega :crybaby:
Lol. The highlight of that demo will probably be the fact that you have to block Ultra II low, so it should help in pressure situations (yeah, I know that doesn’t make any sense). After seeing the straight forward, obvious demo of Fei-Long’s Ultra II, I really think that Capcom is holding out on “important” info with these things.
keep thinking that you 09 retard.
its probably true
oh look another 09er from calgary trying to defend one another.
bottom line is that anyone that thinks vega is fine the way he is iin sf4 is a dumbass/retard. anyone that thinks having a good flip kick will makes him overpowered is dumb/retarded.
Lol man. You realize that some members that joined in 2009 just heard about SRK late, right? Also, no current Vega player thinks he is fine as he is atm. Last time I checked, the argument was about the current usefulness of ST. Normal ST works fine as it is now; giving Vega a no-cost, offensive, invulnerable move is too good for a pre-dominantly defensive character who, if buffed correctly, will have the tools necessary to keep you out just fine. I’m not getting into invul frames on EX ST, since that’s really my opinion.
I’m not gonna say anything about maturity. If people can’t figure out how to handle that by themselves, then you can’t really help them.
the dumbass / retard says “keep thinking that” when i provide him with solid evidence and a smart argument, and calls me an 09er when I’m clearly more knowledgeable about Vega than you are. Pandaman saw it from my perspective, why can’t you? oh right, cause you know my opinion is legit and you’re too much of a stubborn dick to admit it.
i find it funny that you think vega is incomprehensibly bad. thinking otherwise makes me a dumbass / retard? well, actually it makes me one of the best vega players out there. so clearly i’m not going to think you have your head in the right place when you say stupid shit like that.
but like I said… I know your posts, and I know your willingness to throw around the word ‘09er’ like it actually means something. Hell I probably know far more about SF4 in general than you do, and that’s what we’re talking about, so here’s a “fuck you” from me to you.
Vega sucks brahs. Make him ST vega, return him to glory.
You guys are way too aggressive. Always getting personal by saying “retard” “dumbass” and all that. I know this is the internet, but sometimes ppl should learn how to quit being a dick.
You didn’t even need to justify yourself, Joz. Everyone knows of Ouroborus’ provoking way of dealing with problems, we all read his posts after all. And the better Vega players will notice that he is terribly wrong about almost everything he says.
EDIT:
If that glory was ever there, why do you think he was nerfed to begin with?
I wanna address the “good vega’s would just know” thing, but I’m too lazy and it would go off in a tangent. The “glory” part however, I will comment on.
Ahem.
Vega has never been a broken character, nor ever a “#1” char. Invuln ST has never made him too good ever. ST was never some unstoppable go-to move that no one could get around and there have always been stronger moves than ST in every SF title. If you want to talk about Vega being brain-dead and easy to use in SF2T (which has come up before and probably will come up again), keep in mind it was the walldives and pokes that made it so - not ST.
I sure like how Capcom pre-nerfed Sagat in SF4 though, even with his history of being a rape machine. …Oh wait, he’s top dog in this game too! Vega got shafted. We KNOW Vega got pre-nerfed because of the loketests. Invuln ST is nothing new and is nothing game breaking and has never been so.
So far the root of all support against an invuln ST is to preserve “flavour”. That is what your arguments derive from. Flavour.
Flavour vs Wanting a competitive tool
Flavour vs Reliability
Flavour vs Near-perfect opponents who will crush you without fear of retribution
If you don’t want to use ST if it has invuln frames, make yourself happy and do just that. Play your little zoning game and limit your own options. Other people want to use something solid so they aren’t a free kill after being cornered or KD’d.
Join date does not equal game skill. Heck Grade Points in Championship Mode do not equal skill. I have a friend who is a decent Vega, nothing more, who is a G1-E and beat a G1-A Ryu. At the same time I’ve seen people in G2 with much more skill than people in G1.
Grade ponts basically = How long you’ve played Championship Mode
Join Date = How long you’ve been here
That didn’t stop Boxer, Sagat, and Ryu from being top tier in sf4, and they were all arguably better than Claw in ST.
Jesus Christ these newbie Vega players are full of shit.