That seems to me like a needless complication. If any invincibility goes to anything, it’d be ST. EX FBA having invincibility is like other people have said; a property for a move that in its untouched form is really quite good. The only change feasible for that move, imo is a larger vertical hitbox so you can actually hit Blanka with it in combos. It just seems like a weird change, what you’re suggesting.
Rizhall had a good idea though. Varying the speeds of wall dives would be a crazy good addition. I’m all for that.
Brento: You make a good point, about everyone else having invinc. and not being to similar to others. I simply think that if Vega had an invincible fall back with some meter stocked, he’d have less need for the ‘run’ aspect of his gameplay and would become a much more fearless character on offense, thanks to his fallback. Part of never having invincibility is the meticulousness with which you must always play Vega, on both sides of the game. The fact that you never have a fallback like everyone else does just means you have to emphasize controlling space, movement, and evasion that much more. While it wouldn’t be a monumental change, and Vega wouldn’t be that much more similar to other characters, I simply think it’s an unnecessary step in the wrong direction. I’d emphasize the footsies / movement + speed aspect of Vega more. But I know we’ve always differed on this. Time will tell which of us they agree with!
dam 27 pages of people who want claw fixed… lets fucking go capcom give vega some tools.
seriosly though, im really really hoping vega is a big step up from sf4. I loved vega in ST and going from ST to sf4 was really sad for a vega main. Vega needs to be feared when hes picked not laughed at.
whoever talked about changing speeds on his specials with different punch strengths, fucking perfect.
I still think vega would be at least a little better off with a ultra he can combo into, the ultra cross up on someones wakeup was nice, but hardly a garenteed ultra.
Vega with some more tricky shit would be really nice 2.
I don’t like the idea of him being able to combo into his ultra. It will probably happen if he gets RED IMPACT as his 2nd ultra but I don’t favor it. Vega is a character about spacing the crap out of your opponent and tricking them. Combos should not be emphasized. His ultra by principle is good, but the hitbox is utter bullshit making it next to impossible to get it to hit. I can’t begin to tell you how many times my ultra missed my opponent by half a hair’s width.
EX FBA doesn’t need invincibility. I think that would actually make the move broken. But I do wish the hitbox is slightly bigger so that its not as easy to counter as it is right now (The knee lunge).
I can understand Capcom not wanting Vega to dominate, but I think the huge delay after a blocked wall-dive attack is unnecessary for his regular walljump. For the fast one that goes horizontally really quickly? Sure. But the one that’s telegraphed a mile away and can be focused to death? No way.
i see you point but vega either needs better combos or some better tricks. right now he has corpse jumping and… wait thats it, he doesnt have any 50/50 setups which is whats holding him back.
yeah footsies and good spacing are vegas game right now but you cant tell me having a few new tools wouldnt be more then welcome. Vega really doesnt have a footsie game anyway if some one wanted to they could crouch block you all day because vega has no overhead of crossup options.
and trust me i know vegas ultra like the back of my hand, the hitbox is retarded. not even worth doing ever.
I won’t go so far as ST>EX FBA but it would be interesting to see a ST Super mimic by allowing ST light hit opponent in the air >ST Fierce >EX ST. Kinda like in CvS. The last kick will only do 50 damage. That will be kinda cool.
Plus, does no one think its silly that Normal SH doesn’t FA crush? I mean common, a 6’1’’ dude weighing 205 pounds lunging at you like a javelin being thrown. If he had no claw that would make sense but wow, really? Taking a claw traveling 90KM/hour up your chest is totally fine? I think SHC needs to be FA crushing but not a knock down and ST should not crush because it already does 2 hits. Thats just me tho. Atleast this way, SHC won’t be as useless as it is now.
It is offensive to think about isn’t it? SHC and RCF two of his four specials dont just suck they suck hard. I can only think of 1 real use for SHC, drop 2 or 3 izunas then switch to RCF in case they try to jump attack you, even then it will trade.
Which bit specifically is wrong? (I am honestly asking here, I am not being a jerk about it)
That is the thing, people are open to interpret the method they play Vega’s I would be extremely interested to hear your tactics with Vega, your methods of playing in detail I mean. How do you see him? Rushdown? Turtle? Mixture? What moves in their current state complement what style? Let me pick your brains and the other’s brains also?
I would be interested to also ask you what is the maximum number of izuna’s you have landed on someone? And if you are vs a shoto how many have you landed against them? I am not asking for an uppercut proof Izuna, but goddamit Akuma can airgrab shotos right out of DP (with far greater ease), that bites my noodle.
The list of what to ask for is not finite (take no disrespect I am not saying your suggestion is not important, but if this list is what it claims to be a ‘pronlems list’ let us add the range, we do not have uniform agreement that it does not need fixing), sure I agree the vortex works to a degree ([media=youtube]2YabGN3DQrQ[/media]) my point is its far from abusable if they tweak (as you said) speed or grab range I am of the opinion it still wont be abusable. I will settle for either as a fix, just so long as its addressed.
It comes down to a core risk vs reward factor again: SRK-FADC-Ultra lose mask and claw off a wiffed/botched/reversal-dped Izuna, and to add insult to injury we as Vega cant reliably punish with an FADC ultra of our own for such a small error on an opponent’s behalf.
What is the maximum HP you can punish someone for with a point blank FB or a missed point blank SRK?
Your ultra is only reliable if point blank SRK came out and you are near the corner else the travel time gives a LP srk time to recover if you are far enough from the wall. (Sucks does it not?)
Now turn the tables and see what Valle did to Tatsu after he SRKs Izuna.
Sasaki I would also be inclined to pick your brains if you have the time or the inclination.
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One more thing why in the nine hells is my jump only 1 frame faster than Mr Swiss Army knife Ryu?
May I ask if we have consensus however on mask loss penalty? This BS has got to go.
I have been swept out of EX SHC god knows how many times (on the way up, fully extended), I am airborne for crying out loud what gives.
Your posts are extremely hard to understand since I’m not a native. I will try and read it multiple times though. Please correct me if I got any of your arguments wrong.
Low risk, low reward, that’s what Vega plays like atm.
Of course you have a point, Izuna involves a large risk against those characters, and that is really frustrating. However, if we increase the speed of the walldive, your opponent probably won’t be able to easily react to a walldive with an srk anymore. He’d have to use things like crouching fierce that may knock you out, (or they may not, depending on the timing) but don’t damage you that much. On wakeup, dragonpunches would be risky because you could easily cross-up steer and wiggle back and forth.
Increasing the damage output to 200 would mean more reward. Risk would be the same though.
Missed point blank lp srk can be punished with cr.mk, cr.lp, EX FBA.
Missed point blank hp srk can be focussed, then Ultra’d.
First of all, correctly used, Fireballs were always pretty safe. Ryu has always been that kind of character that can play very safe, he was always like that. A wrong placed fireball however can be punished with a a full jumpin. But you know, Vega has never been about punishing that much. He didn’t need combos to win, or any big damage. He had godly pokes and a jumpspeed that kept the opponent from throwing out fireballs in the first place. So what we need is not something that can punish those fireballs, we need something that intercepts them at a specific range, and that is some nicer pokes that are rarely used now. (st.hp e.g)
What you said about punishing is pretty interesting in a way though, because until now I simply can’t understand why most combos don’t land on Ryu. If his EX FBA would hit lower or something we could cr.mk cr.lp cr.mp ex FBA every time.
The maximum number of Izunas I landed on someone in a row is 5. It was a Ryu. (I got hit on the sixth one btw)
Don’t forget Vega’s jump also doesn’t have near the range of Ryu’s.
As for mask loss…I say get rid of the penalty entirely and just give Vega advantages when he loses it. Increased speed, damage, whatever. Since it generally happens after he’s already taken something of an ass-kicking, making him gain advantages from losing it would make sense along with the whole ultra/revenge theme. Also, it would make the mask throw move actually make a bit of sense instead of just being the most confusingly stupid move in the game.
1- Make it come off if you get dizzied, but there is no penalty/advantage.
And…the following is not my idea. Someone else suggested it and for the life of me I can’t remember who-
2- After your mask comes off Vega becomes agitated/frustrated/scared and has new dialogue based on the situation. Kind of like [media=youtube]Znuyn9d0xVY"[/media] of this well known contest.
Why doesn’t this vid include the scene right before??? D:
I love the idea. I cant remember if I posted this, but I thought it’d be cool if he had an idle animation, which would differ slightly depending on what he had on and off.
Pass his claw/hand in front of his face.
Mask + Claw: just pass it by slowly, and then swing it fiercely to his side while laughing a little.
No mask + Claw: Give the claw a Vega-esque lick as it passes by his face. (Coupled with the idea I had where his claw would become more n more red with each slash, the lick could remove some of the red as an added effect)
No mask + no claw: Cover most of his face with his hand and shout something out violently while slowly lowering the hand.
I think you’re wrong in saying that Vega is a bad character. You made a comment about him being a lame horse or something. I don’t think Vega is that bad.
I see Vega as Mixture. Hit and run for sure. In some matches, you have to play serious defense, like vs Zangief.
I’ve gotten like 6 or 7 izunas on a sagat in one round. Against Ryu’s I’ve gotten like max 4 in a row. Against Abel’s, Chun’s, and Gief sometimes I’ve gotten 3 or so.
