oh my bad, I meant EX DP :rolleyes:
Can Vega’s EX ST really be used as a reliable wake up tool? If that were the case then, how come the general concensus is that Vega gets raped in corners 
I was more or less asking you that. 
I love using the character but I’m going to stop pretending to know what the fuck I’m talking about after Jozhear finished with me…
Yea you was demolished by Joz 
Sorry I was so vehement in my argument megadeth. I had just gotten off work and have the weekend off so I was full of energy, made it a little hostile in the argument. I`m glad you see my point of view though.
Nope it doesn’t. Vega doesn’t have any moves with invincibility except the flips.
Sakura’s wakeup game is pretty bad, but EX shoryu is completely invincible for the first million frames. She does have an invincible reversal. Plus, reversal timing on cr.HP actually shrinks her hitbox and makes her immune to certain crossup stuff (Gief’s splash comes to mind) AND hits the opponent too.
EX shoryu is worse than EX messiah, even though they start up in similar frames (11 for EX messiah, 12 for shoryu), because you’re gonna be eating a huge combo unless you have 3 meters with Sakura. At least Rufus sometimes (often!) gets out of EX messiah without needing to burn 2 meters. But hey, at least EX shoryu is there.
Vega has it pretty bad on wakeup. I’d say Rose doesn’t have it much better: it’s really easy to safe-meaty EX drill and then punish with whatever you want (why EX drill isn’t safe is beyond me). I think it’s clear Capcom wanted him to be super good in other areas to make up for his crappy wakeup game, but they overestimated his strengths.
Also Jozhear, I know you know your Vega, but gotta keep it friendly! 
I don’t know where your point is. Many players agreed - me too in my last post- that the grab range isn’t really what they should fix in his Izuna. The grab range is not the worst aspect. If they only fixed the grab range, I’d be so disappointed… because grabbing with an Izuna can be learnt. Making things easier doesn’t make them necessarily better. No matter how good you are at steering an Izuna, it will still be slow and people will hit you out of the air. THAT is an example for something that is stacked against you. You land a grab, and the damage is still pathetic - that too is REALLY something that is stacked against you because you can’t do anything about it. Not the grab itself that many players on advanced can do all the time.
Sure, if you want it to become easier for casual players - I respect that. It’s your opinion and tbh I haven’t even thought about making it easier for beginners.
Lastly, in your last paragraph you are right. Vega has it hard right now, I’ll admit that. But making stuff easier isn’t going to help him much I’m afraid. They need to make things BETTER.
I just had an idea.
How about, LP walldive makes you move slowly, like it is now.
But if you use HP walldive, you’ll move faster like in the older games.
MP being the middle man, obviously.
I suggest this because I like the idea of him having a faster walldive, but I’d hate to see the slow SFIV one go. I use it’s slower speed to bait things out and better control a punish.
you mean LK MK and HK right Cause P is for SHC.
Anyway, I’m sure that’s what you were trying to say. And I totally agree. FBA is pretty good for baiting.
This is the rage I feel everytime I am THROWN out of a perfectly timed wake-up ST by Chun or some other character.
ST will beat throws the majority of the time, but sometimes, I see that yellow flash and my ass is back in the corner. And it wasn’t an accidental FBA.
I actually thought about that too a while back, im suprised i never posted about it.
The man has a point here.
That works only against people who have absolutely no idea how to play. Otherwise it is wait it out and punish.
I seriously thought you were trolling Joz at this point.
You also have a point, but making things better will in turn, make them easier. And we all live happily ever after.
Way to man up. Seriously. I love using him too, but he is just so fucking frustrating to use sometimes. I don’t frequent the Claw forums much right now, but Joz knows his shit.
This is a good idea, so don’t hold your breath on it ever happening.
I have still never figured out the difference between using the different attack strengths for the walldives. I know RH does 90, and short does 70, but I have never noticed a difference in any other properties. Is the throw range better? There has to be some reason for the damage difference. Speed seems the same, and so does attack range, start-up, and Vega’s hitbox. Throw is all I can think of. Anyone?
I also don’t know this. I use roundhouse every time.
wow, seriously? and here I am waiting for meter because I thought ex ST was the only thing saving my ass. Now I know it’s as vulnerable as any other ST. 
Did Capcom purposely want this character to fail or does Vega suddenly become god tier if they give him an invincible move? There has to be something I’m not getting…
I don’t think he becomes god tier, but it makes him too much like any other character with an srk. And that doesn’t really fit with his play style.
There are lots of ways Capcom can improve him while not compromising the style of character he is.
The question is will they?
Do you mean every other character in the game? Because every other character (all 24 of them) have at least one invincible reversal. I don’t think anyone would say that every character in the game plays like a shoto just because they have something invincible. I don’t think something like that will take away all the unique aspects of a such a diverse character.
It would be nice if it wasn’t so easy to jab your way out of claw’s EX moves… give them a hitbox that will give them priority over jabs, please…
Rizhall said:
"*I just had an idea.
How about, LP walldive makes you move slowly, like it is now.
But if you use HP walldive, you’ll move faster like in the older games.
MP being the middle man, obviously.
I suggest this because I like the idea of him having a faster walldive, but I’d hate to see the slow SFIV one go. I use it’s slower speed to bait things out and better control a punish.*"
Rizzy,
I like that idea, but I had another idea I liked a little better. What if MP SHC did what the current LP SHC does right now, and LP SHC gets changed to move with no active hitbox, but i-frames on startup (or within the first two frames if that’s too good) and all the way through until you land with about the same recovery frames as Sim’s teleport?
That way it could never be used as an attack, since it can’t do damage, but it would be awesome corner escape. You couldn’t just run away with it all day because we all know that non-EX SHC’s leave you spaced in prime punishment range (even on hit) if you throw them out center screen, but when you use LP SHC in the corner, you land all the way on the other side of the screen. It would provide Vega with a good corner escape game, which, I think may be just enough to make him mid-tier.
ALSO
Why does everyone say i-frames on EX-FBA is too good? Of course i-frames on EX-FBA towards is OP, but why can’t the frame properties be different according to which direction you use the EX-FBA?
I-frames on EX-FBA away from your opponent, and NO I-frames on EX-FBA towards your opponent.
You don’t need to change the hitbox to stop meaty jabs, he just needs some invincibility frames.
I’m not just talking about meaties… I’m talking about well-timed jabs that knock you out of EX SHC when you’re already fully extended.