Sounds exactly like my fly analogy from a few posts up. He should have been a fly that is annoying as hell and hard to swat even if he can only do little bits of damage at a time. Instead he’s a fly that can only do a little damage but isn’t hard to pin down and squash.
That’s why I say
A: Better wake-up, better damage, less claw/mask loss
OR!!!
B: He’s hard as fuck to catch. That’s what I would like.
But not both
And regardless of which option you chose:
No more glitch fails
RCF faster startup
Ultra can be comboed OR hurts like a motherfucker (in the mold of Akuma’s) But not both.
Hey Joz and Sasaki,
I had a random idea the other day, but haven’t thought it completely through so I wanted to throw this out and let you guys chew on it.
What if LP SHC was totally revamped to have the following properties?
Either extremely quick startup Or invulnerable on startup.
Does shit for damage (like a jab)
Lands a safe distance away.
With this, you could cancel your normals into LP SHC and get the fuck away from your opponent. It’s safety and fast startup would be balanced by it’s lack of damage. This would make a good corner escape and add to Vega’s hit and run game. He would be almost as annoying to catch as a good Sim.
Now that I am much better with Vega I feel that the things he really needs are
Reliable ultra
Fixed glitches
Fixed stupid stuff like getting ultra countered from succeeding to hit with SHC, and change the fact that you can counter hit in the middle of RCF, and change something about light RCF so that it will always combo if cr lk hits, and if cr mk hits (at least from close). If you are standing right next to vega and do cr mk --> light RCF it will NOT combo.
Change something about mask and claw. Either make no penalties for losing it, or make it so that you can decide on whether to have it fall off or not. It makes no sense to have these penalties at all.
It would be nice if they…
Fix some hit boxes on certain moves (close lk, cr. FP)
Change amount of lag off the wall from FBA and decrease landing lag IF there was no attack done.
Do something with cr. fierce kick to make it less punishable.
Decrease the amount of total frames for his backflips and dashes, though they can keep the amount of vulnerable frames. I mean hes supposed to be a ninja, so why do other people have quicker dashes than him? If they changed this, then he really does not need to have faster walking speed I think.
As for my random idea…
Why not make piece of mercury crumple if it hits, rather than being an overhead. I am really opposed to it being an overhead because if it was an overhead then when someone goes to block it they will have to stand, and if they stand and block it, then they will recover much faster and punish easily. However, without fear of getting hurt from ducking and blocking, then they will most likely stay crouched, which will at least make it much safer (for vega) as they will get stunned towards the end of the move.
Also the only reason I see people ever needing invincibility frames for ST is for moves like Blanka’s ultra, that if they start it right next to you cornered in a wall, that you could escape, instead of getting chipped to death, although if they change him in general to make him better, then I guess it would be OK if he didn’t have it.
Double props on the idea that an empty FBA has better recovery.
Right now Ken and Ryu can air-tatsu across the screen. I have not personally checked the frame data, but it really seems to be less punishable than empty FBA’s. Ryu and Ken can also SRK when they see you trying to punish their Air-Tatus. Vega has no fast reliable way to punish you if you try to rush his recovery.
Because of the above, it seems like Ken and Ryu have more mobility than Vega… and that is effed up! They get the best wake-up move while Vega gets shit wake-up AND they get a better keepaway game? No, Vega is the mobile one… empty FBA’s should have great recovery. Let Ken and Ryu wake-up easier… but let Vega be the one who’s mobility is second to none.
Let him EX his flips. They go farther and recover faster
Allow him to flip forward instead of only back. This way he can get out of corners and contant cross ups.
He should be able to wake up into his flips. The way bison can wake up and teleport to get away.
Other things
Izuna Drop needs to be flat out better. Faster, better at grabing opponents, ect…
Since his damage is low make his hits do lots of stun. The opponent would be bleeding out after getting cut up by his claws.
Ultra homes in much like SpiderMans hyper move in MvC2.
or
Ultra is safe on block if missed.
He desperately needs invulnerability on the way to the wall for his ultra. He is the only character in the game that doesn’t get invulerability frames right away when starting his ultra.
I really think improving his flips would be great. Ex them for speed, distance and recovery and allow him to flip forwardwould help him out alot.
I like his cr.hp having a better anti air hitbox. That seems like a fairly decent solution.
I would say abel and sim have better wakeup options than vega, but not by much. Abel has strike or throw invul throws, and ex roll is slightly more viable than backflips.
Sim has ex upflame, a better teleport than vega’s backflips, and super.
That being said, I just don’t think vega’s wakeup option are SO much worse as to cry for years about them. They are easily in the same ballpark abel, sim, sakura, and rose.
Some surprisingly sensible posts from some of the more veteran vega players, I am impressed.
What can Vega do (in a corner) to stop a meaty punch into shoryuken chip death? Nothing at all (at least I think this to be so, so help me if I am wrong). He has no invulnerable frames in anything including his ultra. I believe that at least everyone has at least something to help them escape in any type of situation.
However, I agree that what he needs most is to be better in general to account for his horrible wake up game, which I believe is what people are saying.
Well, you can backdash, which with good reactions is punishable. But that’s not really a big deal, being stuck in the corner with around 40 health left is already game over, it is just a lame duck portion of the match. There are many situations in SF4 where you can force a chip loss with nothing the opponent can do. Just think of how many people ryu can throw lp fireball fadc back to chip to death.
Still being in this situation is what is the be avoided. It is not like 50% health -> loss.
Take that with a grain of salt. The game is still months from release, and anything could happen. There’s no way they don’t know of Vega’s flaws by now. Hopefully they will fix at least some of them.
I’m pretty sure hes not gonna be the worst character in the game if they add in some of the stuff we’ve all mentioned. I can already tell he’ll be mid tier at worse. I hope they finish the game sooner though, i’ve already quit this game when i heard that ssf4 was coming out a while back lol
the wide-screen hurts Vega truck loads more than in 4:3 screen sized SFers.
the wide-screen even changes the way the game is played defensively on the Turtle front.
which disadvantages Vega IMO. He will remain low tier now matter how much they improve him; especially when the others will get improved themselves as well
I like Vega the way he is. All I want is his Ultra to be comboable like most other characters. Light ST into Ultra. That option alone would make Vega a much bigger threat over all. If he is going to do little damage (which is ridiculous as he is using a claw) and be easily stunned, then he needs to be balanced out by making his Ultra comboable.
The other fixes are obvious ones and have already been talked about.
Vega only needs two things - indeed,a comboable Ultra(they can even leave the damage unchanged for it) and a reliable gtfo move to be able to escape corner pressure/locks.
IMO,it’s pretty easy to make Vega brokenly good even with a small tweak,though.
I only really agree with your flip idea. It sounds pretty cool.
Vega’s FBA is already fast as it is. He just needs more grab range imo.
A homing ultra would be too much. Safe move is okay I guess.
Dhalsim can get hit very easily out of his Ultra. Although it doesnt stop the fire from coming out, it still interrupts him. Although I would like it if he got invul frames (I mean Vega).
Make ST a reversal and better antiair, make ex roll usefull. I have an idea for a combo into ultra. imagine his ultra could be activated from a FBA wall jump so after an EX FBA launcher instead of following up with izuna drop u ultra their ass! Would look sick but i dont know how the imput would be lol