I’d be happy with just a few invul frames on the ST, and fix the motion on the ultra to Bison’s. The Guile/Claw motion just doesn’t work reliably for me where it did in HDR.
Maybe a tweak on the walldive grab hitbox, and fix the zooming wall bug too.
Aw, I love the Ultra motion as it is. It’s unique. And I feel accomplished cuz a lot of people can’t do it.
after all the debate… the thread is a little bit dirty and its probably not very clear for the new guys what is that we are discussing here… so, i made a poll…
go and check it out, maybe this way we can agree on something…
funny how these dumb fucks from 2009 are still going at it.
the ONLY reason why vega is even considered braindead in st was because of the wall dive crossup and knockdown vs certain characters. that got taken out in hdr yet he still eons better than sf4 vega. just because he can do more than running away and actually mount an offense, hes considered braindead? great fuckin logic.
go eat a dick sasaki
No offence, but that is one of the stupidest reasons to keep an Ultra motion.
Never mind the fact that the input makes it virtually impossible to punish anything on reaction unless your opponent likes doing fireballs across the screen. Even then, it’s still not easy and your Ultra can be baited out.
Seriously, change the BHC Ultra motion to QCFx2, and have Vega go in a STRAIGHT line toward the opponent without any wall gimmicks. Instantly better Ultra. Imagine Wolverine’s dash Super in MvC2.
For the second Ultra, change it to the former motion (DB,DF,DB,UB/UF). Have his second Ultra be Rolling Izuna Drop, EXCEPT it can hit on the way up, similar to EX-Wall Dive (blockable for standing opponents). This is mainly an anti-air sort of move for Vega, except you still need to time it and does no damage at all if you miss. Hitbox same as EX-Wall Dive. If you hit your opponent with this, Vega carries him to the wall and immediately goes into the Rolling Izuna Drop.
Super should be changed to Red IMPACT or Scarlet Mirage (Flip kick x3). The current one is so useless, considering it doesn’t hit on the way up and EASILY COUNTERED BY EVERY CHARACTER IN THE CAST.
This guy speaks the truth. Alpha 3 Vega was one of the best incarnations to date, and nobody was complaining about him. He was an overall solid character with good normals, and didn’t rely on shit like Tiger Knee spam/Rufus Dive Kick in SF4.
Even in ST, Vega’s still not braindead. You can spam Wall Dives all you want, see how far it gets you when you’re facing decent players. Friends who only know how to j.hk and cr.hk don’t count.
SF4 Vega, it’s like Capcom didn’t even bother playing this character. People realized on the very first day he was bad, and it only got worse since then.
im all for the increased speed on the Ultra, but dont change the motion if you cant do it then practice it (no offense here sorry if I sound like a lv.100 dick). And say Vega went straight to the opponent then all fireballs would be beyond unsafe especially if the motion is qcf x 2. in fact it would become to strong because it now goes straight for the opponent and you can now punish almost anything. (theoretically). As for the super, if found ways to use it. there rather questionable use of meter, but still its very useful. for example, the character has 10% health and you knock him down and you go for a super on his wake up. Its really hard for even Ryu or Zangief to get out of this situation. there are more set ups but enough with that. knowing Capcom if they are adding 1 more Ultra chances are they are not going to change the supers, maybe they’ll add another super who knows?
for ultra to justify the extreme planning to land it they should increase the damage. they can add the damage by adding a super cool stylized izuna drop after the fifth hit of BHC.
for his second ultra, the options of what it could be are rather interesting. since his ultra is based on SHC the new ultra could be based on either ST, RCF, or maybe its just Red Impact. given his play style what do you think would be the most viable move to base the Ultra? And how are we going to land this new Ultra? FADC xx Ultra is viable. the set up would be RCF xx FADC xx Ultra and your left with a 4-5 frame window after dashing. if its based on that then it should be Red Impact. Imagine? FA lv3/J.HP - ST.HP XX HP RCF XX FADC XX ULTRA, that would be sexy as fuck if you ask me. If its based on ST then the only set ups i can see at the time are AA LK.ST - ULTRA, not as sexy but much more viable and thats what we want right? More viable Ultra options.
Please elaborate on these ideas.
i think he has great normals, the only problem is hit box issues with his claw, the enourmous threat of moves with invul frame or moves that shift the opponents hit box. His issues stem from lack of speed, opposing characters mix ups, and when you attempt to mix up the opponent you risk more than what you can deal. fixing those issues will make Vega jump to the upper echelons of the tiers.
I’ve also came to the conclusion that I want Vega to be S tier so that every one that complains about Sagat, Ryu, and Seth being OP really know what it is to be OP.
ATTN: Theory Fighter post. Disregard this if it’s too lame of an idea.
It would be pretty awesome if Bloody High Claw started from the ground and then jolted towards the wall at like, say, Jab Sky High Claw level. And then did all the flashy bouncing of walls, slicing, et cetera.
It’d make for a really good anti-air, and would probably see a lot more use than it does now.
Currently, he jumps off of the (closest?) wall and goes downward towards the other side of the screen, and if blocked/whiffed he’ll land a few steps back.
I guess we were going for the same idea, more or less. heh.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVV: was not aware of that. Thanks for clearing that up.
You can pick the wall he goes from with your last input.
@pedoviejo - I can pull off the Super in HDR almost 100% of the time - I realise the timing is different in SFIV, but I feel it lacks consistency. Anyway, lets face it - most gamers are in their 20s and 30s and have jobs and lives. I’ve got a baby on the way; I get about an hour a day (if I’m incredibly lucky) to play on my 360 and I doubt that’s uncommon. Practice makes perfect, but it also makes divorce if you take it too seriously.
yeah i still dont get it all the time, but practice does make perfect. But im only 19 working on my major for med school, working at an auto body shop, killing time with friends and family, so i have the luxury of spending an extra hour to kill on training mode where most gamers do not. I would hate to be in your situation, this young. But its understandable for you guys wanting it to be easier, and it would make sense to have an easier input because it would benifit the people who play a lot as well.
LOL some of the suggestions are so retarded that they’re just hilarious
many suggestions were pretty awesome though , like the EX backflip and the different VA when the mask falls off , i’d pay 60$ just for that XD
oh and fuck ST , just give Vega his speed back and remove the mask falling nonsense and he’ll do fine
I don’t want it easier I want it to work 
(Because it does work perfectly in HDR)
If I’m going to blow an hour on practice, I want that hour to be on links, bnb combos and fancy stuff, not just things that should just work.
Oh, and I’m 26, married and happy as Larry as it happens - I’d recommend it to a friend :lovin:
The walldive loops from ST are probably the reason the Barcelona got so badly nerfed, but even without a nerf they’d be a LOT less effective in SF4.
The existence of 2 seperate wakeup speeds immediately drops the mixups from 50/50 to 75/25 in the defender’s favour, and this is without taking into account FA, backdash, easier reversal window, easier crossover reversal timing.
As for the Ultra, I’d be happy with the old back wall shortcut (:db::df::ub:) being reinstated. This makes the move a lot faster to prep and a lot smoother. If DP and SPD get new, easier shortcuts, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for Vega and Guile to lose their only shortcut.
For the Ultra’s use, I’d not fiddle with it too much. I’d either give it the kind of massive power that the hardest Ultra to land would warrant (instead of being one of the weakest) or allow EX Scarlet to cause float rather than juggle to allow combo’d Ultra and leave the damage low.
Assuming Vega gets one of his old Supers back (personally, I think it’s more likely he’ll get a new Ultra), which would be better would depend on the other.
Red Impact would likely be high damage, so comboable BHC would be better.
Scarlet Mirage should be comboable, so high damage BHC would be better.
Vega doesn’t need a complete rework, he just needs a couple of minor tweaks here and there. All the Scarlet Terror really needs is to have it’s hitbox fixed, right now it whiffs in some really weird places (short/forward miss crouchers, forward/RH don’t hit to the tips of Vega’s feet).
I loved both SFA3 and ST Vegas, but compared to SF4 Vega they weren’t as flamboyant. I just prefer this version, and it’s hard to go back. In hindsight, old Vega was just too conservative compared to the new version, and I think this is the way forward for him. They just need to tweak it a little.
The core of the post wasn’t even his ST, it was Ouroborus’ ridiculous improvement list.
Heck, I don’t even care if he gets that 4 frames invuln. EX ST anymore. Just don’t forget fixing the REAL issues he has right now, and those would be his ultra and some other stupid things we already talked about. You can fix his problems and maybe some speed issues and some carefully thought-trough selected stuff, but no need to overbuff him with all that shit he suggested.
And no, I don’t want him like CE Dictator.
@Decadence: Izuna Drop is a command throw. You can’t quickstand after it. You also can’t quickstand after a sweep or slide I believe.
(from the left) 153217 3k. I don’t understand why you don’t think that’s a smooth motion.
Vega needs to be as fast as Cammy and Chun-Li. That’d change his game greatly. A wider hitbox on his Ultra. I have been thinking about giving Vega some invincibility, but that’s not really necessary. IMO
The biggest things are…
I think that’s it, I love playing as Vega. I actually have always been a Bison player, but I moved to him in this game because I like his poking game. Blanka still pisses me off though! :X
Make it easier to land his Ultra and harder to lose his mask/claw are the obvious ones.
It is, when you look at it this way: :db::d::df::d::db::l::ub:
EDIT: I just re-read your post, I missed your second “don’t.” Well, yep, it’s a smooth motion.
You’re doing the wrong motion sir, you’re doing what I used to do. That’s:
:db::d::df::d::db::l::ub: 1232147 - old motion
:db: neutral :df::d::db::ub: 153217 - smooth works every time motion
edit and I read your edit after I made this post, lol. Oh well - I’ll leave it here for anyone else still having trouble with his ultra.
Really?? That actually seems less smooth to me, and I have no problem pulling off his ultra with the other motion. Bear in mind I’m using the analog stick on an xbox 360 pad. I find it easy to just roll it from one side to the other, and then in reverse and to the up position.
i have no problem pulling off the loop de-loop ultra out of any dash or to any wall