Anyone have some matchup tips for fighting Nina?
This is one of those rare times where I say āscrew common sense.ā Because sometimes common sense isnāt the best way to go. Actually I sometimes like going against common sense. Broadening the horizon is never a bad idea in my books. Besidesā¦going this style has got me far and taught me much. I aināt stopping now.
On one hand I kinda agree? Like I just said, you need to do anything a character can do. That includes playing out of their archetype strength.
But donāt limit yourself to AVOIDING that archetype either.
When I said mathā¦I literally meantā¦do the math.
Like add the frames together and profit. Plus you changed the scenario. The example was Nina and Juri bopped eachother with their OHās (no CHās) and wanted to continue pressure with their quickest normal.
Ninasā normal is her standing jab (15 frames total) and wants to use this move to frame trap Juri and get a combo off. Meanwhile Juri wants to reversal with ex senpusha to stop the momentum and reverse it. Now Nina throws out her jab it whiffs due to Juri reversingā¦now Nina gets hit.
Same with Juri except now Nina wants to reverse with Ex geyser cannon. Juri throws out her quickest normal (cl.lk which is also 15frames)ā¦Juriās whiffs ā¦but Nina still loses. See what Iām getting at? This is just a mere example (though it can happen and will happen, Iāve seen it myself at high lvl play.)
-Donāt jump.
-If the jump in looks like a cross up it is.
-If it looks like a cross up it isnāt.
-Get hit guess oki facepalm and rage repeat.
-Try to give it away.
-Throw SFxT into the ocean.
http://8wayrun.com/attachments/exs6r-gif.22186/
-Buy another copy because you miss it.
-Then pick Hwoarang and Law.
I laughed.
But my question is who the hell would waste a meter for that?! Why not just use cr.mk and then senpusha TC? Why do something that unsafe for no reason if youāre at +3 then you might as well press your advantage with normalsā¦ You already canāt launch Juriās cr.mk properly so in makes it a strong choice vs any character who doesnāt have a 3 frame reversal or a 3 frame cr.short if youāre at +3. And even more ridiculous is who would EX reversal if they got hit by Sekku??? I mean off of an overhead with a super long confirm time maybe (2 hit OHās especially), but against a fast overhead that basically happens quickly and then itās over I think your opponent would just be like āWell that happened =|ā and then backdash.
And if youāre going to use EX senpusha because youāre expecting them to mash then you should expect them to mash EX geyser vs your reversal. That was my point. Just cr.mk or if you expect them to reversal just block. =|
Edit: Once again not trying to be a douche I just think spending meter for a hail mary isnāt worth it especially if itās blocked then youāre forced to spend another meter just to make it safe. When if you really wanted a hail mary move you could sekku (xN) then cr.mk> Senpusha TC for 1 meter. If they stand they get hit; if they donāt then youāre still safe but for 1 meter.
Your missing the pointā¦again. this isnāt about āwell I can do this insteadā, of course I can do something elseā¦I would never do something like that. The point is though being at +3 form Juri is scarier then Nina at +2. She canāt even use her st.jab after a successful IC. She has to resort to using cr.lk/mk to get the job done or st.mk or cr.mp. Still a 3frame gap if she chooses to use cr.mp.
Backdashing against Juri after getting hit by Sekku can still put Juri on + even you if backdash and youāre still at an disadvantage (better then blocking maybe but still disadvantage).
And about that Juriās normal suck up closeā¦well outside of the uni frametraps (light attack frametraps) yeha she doesnāt get far in the FT department. Throw in some Fuhajin releases in there and you got some decent FTās going.
Honestly I think Juriās true strength lies in making herself look open (sometimes she is) and her opponents try to take advantage of it but end getting countered in the process. Like example doing Shikusen, 2nd impact (delayed) on block nets a good chunk of pushback at only -6. 1 frame windows especially online are kinda difficult to do depending the amount of BS. Offline is easier but not much easier. Add to the fact that you can SWC off it (on block to make a TBS/FT), acts as a natural FT, can combo off it and make it pretty safe against a majority of the castās moves.
Of course this comes with a priceā¦Good spacing is required to do this successfully.
Yeah, Iām thinking about picking up some pocket top tiers just in case. Nina feels beatable, but sheās definitely a monster and you canāt afford to make any mistakes due to that damage output. BTW, I meant to ask earlier, did you see any glaring mistakes I made in the matches we had earlier? I know I made a few bad jumps here and there, but otherwise Iām just trying to find ways to crack people open with Ken more often.
Ve you lied to me, everyone blocks Hugoās overhead!
At some point however I connected hk tatsu, tag canceled and used cr. Lk into launcher. From there I just used Kenās back mk for the ground bounce and used pandora, ex palm breaker into super.
Slightly less damage since freaking everyone blocks high, but close to a Akuma kill.
How is that missing the point when your point was well EX Senpusha beats all options? Juri is not a rushdown character; Nina is. Thatās is why Nina at +2 is fundamentally scarier than Juri at +3 in your face. Once Nina is in at +2 she is at the range where she wants to be AND she is at advantage. Juri at + 2 whatās the worse thing thatās gonna happen I get thrown or the 200 damage from BnB no store??? That vs guess high or low. Failed? Eat 400 damage. Guessed right? OK she has enough time to tell that she is at disadvantage and stop her offenseā¦ Once youāre in that range thatās it. If you walk back EX SS which crushes lows 400+oki damage. If you donāt she can force her way in with flash kicks and CADC and she has a superior frame trap game and walk speed. There shouldnāt even be a gentlemanās disagreement on this. A rushdown character up close is scarier than a non rushdown character up close.
I already confirmed you can be in range where you can use st.lp as a poke even just off of the second of IC hit. Itās just highly unnecessary and cumbersome. And at the same time sekku has more range than her cr.mk so you can land sekku and your follow up can whiff itās no guarantee. In fact you have to be within cr.MK range in order for cr.lk to hit after landing sekku. And that is not the place where Juri shines.
Side note itās a 4 frame gap with cr.mp 2 frame gap with cr.lk off of Ivory cutter.
The argument here is like saying Guile at +3 (your position) is much scarier than Kazuya in your face at +2 (my position). The sheer fact that one character who is rush down is in your face and at advantage is far worse than a character who not rush down but in your face. Hell Kazuya at -1 is scary, ditto for Nina. I donāt even know why this is a conversation to be hadā¦
Iām not even ragging on Juri I think she is a really good character when she is midscreen around where the game starts you and slightly further back (basically 3-4 training room squares), but itās crazy to think that she is scarier than a rushdown character even though she doesnāt excel up close.
And seriously whatās the worst that could happen if someone backdashes sekku? EX senpusha??? Divekick??? Both are unnecessary hail mary moves.
Oh akumaā¦talk about a softieā¦the irony is hilarious.
I would use fireballs more. Use F+HK feints more. And if you realize your chain is blocked try to cancel it with EX Hadouken. I have no freaking clue what to tell you about Kuma though I feel he just does shit and I pay the consequence for fighting a bear bare handed. But after that claw swipe chain I always neutral jumped to see if you would try to AA with his AA ballā¦curlā¦thing, but you never did.
@FengShuiEnergy Manā¦Why would you 2nd impact on block? xD
Edit: Just testing 2nd impact delay on block mindless 3 frame moves in general punish it. 4 frame moves punish it. It doesnāt seem worth it imo.
Double edit still testing: 8 frame moves beat it (sakura far hp) at itās worst. Elena st.lk wrecks it 3 frame startup with long range even if it hits at itās lowest.
Man I should play your Juri sometime, because honestly I have no idea how you even play Juri. Itās like hearing a El Fuerte main talk about using footsies over vortex and mixups. In fact it would probably be frightening seeing El Fuerte with footsie tools. xD
Ummm you backdash I use st.mp then catch your grounded frames with cr.mp into a combo. I know Juriā¦like better then most people. Also Itās 278 bnb with no storeā¦you donāt even know Juriā¦like at allā¦
ā¦I seriously think youāre just being stubborn.
Also where did I state that Ex senpusha beats all options? I merely gave an example of a scenario and you go and say that āit beats all options?ā Where, where did I say or even imply that? IT. WAS.AN.X.AMP.PULL! jesus Christā¦this is the mentality of some people seriouslyā¦they automatically think something elseā¦you know what? fine. Iām done here. Clearly Iām not getting through to you. Think what you want. I know I did my homeworkā¦
Having said that being ignorant of Juri is a common thing anyway. I get this impression that āyou donāt know Juri sit back homie.ā That doesnāt sit well with me.
Dude I play darkphyre pretty often and I used her before. Just because I donāt site the exact damage off of her storeless combos doesnāt make my point any less valid. Do you want me to say well mess up against Nina and itās 424, 446, 466, etc damage? No itās for the sake of simplicity that I say 400. Why can you not understand that a rushdown character in your face is worse than a character who zones?
And dude the pushback doesnāt do shit. Those characters can adequately punish it. In fact Sakura can just walk forward HP. =|
Canāt. Walking forward means she canāt punish it in time. You have to punish 2nd impact right after blocking or else you lose the punish I know this. Iāve tested this. +3 on hit vs a +2 on hit the +3 is better. simple as that.
Again never did I say Juriās rushdown is better then Ninaāsā¦stop putting words in my mouth.