SFxT General Discussion #4 - Witty title

[KitL19]

15 frame start up and catches backdashes+ CH ground bounce for a full combo is bad, but Dudleys OH with 14 frame start up and TC-able is good, but crap range. Oh lawd what has become of you Nina? People think your overhead is worse than Dudley’s despite it having more range (even on the first hit), but 1 frame slower…

[Rc_ON]

15 frames is indeed slow for footsies. Pretty sure he was talking about the useability as a footsie tool.

[street11]

I don’t think he’s talking about a slow “overhead”, but rather a slow “move”.

But yeah, I think it has a great range as a move.

[FengShuiEnergy]

Well there aren’t a whole lot of OH’s that are under 10frames of startup.

[KitL19]

15 frames is indeed slow for footsies. Pretty sure he was talking about the useability as a footsie tool.

If that’s what he meant then my bad. puts away glocks I thought he was taking a shot at my girl Nina. We don’t insult miss Williams on these boards homie.

[FengShuiEnergy]

Really…a glock? Sir c’mere…shows Kit “the wall” NOW this…THIS IS A WEAPON!

Put that thing away you call a gun and get your hands on this naughty thing.

[the7k]

I was watching Juicebox’s KOF Steam stream and he had “Toto - Africa” in the playlist. Made me think, “Man, I wish I had the skills to do an Elena combo video set to this.”

If I had the skills to do one I would use this:

That sounds appropriate, yeah.

I’m thinking Dudley would have something by (Machine)Gun(Blow)s N Roses. And Sagat definitely needs a tutorial set to Eye of the Tiger.

I wish Elena’s Handstand Whip did more damage, considering you can’t combo off of it and it leaves you at a slight disadvantage.

[cg123n1]

Sagat, Ryu, Akuma, Nina, Asuka, Heihachi, Hwoarang, Dudley (hell, especially Dudley) all have easily better overheads off the top of my head. Some of them require meter to be really useful, but then they are REALLY useful. Hwoarang’s f+mk is probably the best command overhead, being +2 on block AND flamingo cancellable and all that.

Hers is still good though. It hops over lows, so if I instinctively do a crouching move to hit her, unlike every other char in the game, I’ll miss, but unlike every other char with an airborne normal, it’s also an overhead. You have to stuff it with a standing move or block it. The other overheads you named can be stuffed with some degree of jab mashing.

Also I love her and Elena they are just so damn happy

1. Elena’s probably one of my fave females in SF. Elena, Sakura, and Cammy. Not sure of the order, but seeing how Elena doesn’t suck in this game…

2. You lied to me!!! Nina was ALL IN MY SH*T!!! Q_Q

Our session makes SO much more sense now…

Well, our session would also lag spike every 15 seconds. X(

And you do love your lows with Ryu…

Well…you launched a few standing ones too…surprising, really. One st. MP attempt and an overhead attempt got launched. q_q

When I get back during whatever break comes next, I’m gonna have a lil 1 on 1 time with XFINITY customer support.

Nina does have footsies with cr. hk/mk and st. Mk/hk to say the least.

So her Skull Splitter doesn’t exist anymore? Don’t give me that “neutral jump it” jazz, either. Kit taught me the hard way that a smart Nina player will lk. Geyser the neutral jump before you neutral jump the Skull Splitter. =_=

2. Nina’s footsies aren’t flawed. Her overhead is fast, can be tag canceled for damage, safe on block, causes a bounce on airborne opponents, chases rolls and back dashes, and has good reach (primarily the second hit). Her other footsies tools are easy confirms into easy damage, and most of her specials are jab punishable at BEST. It’s not like she has low reaching moves. In fact, she has deceptively high amounts of reach, especially with the threat of semi-random Skull Splitters coupled with her dangerous (and unwarranted) Geyser Kick AA keeping opponents where they need to be. To boot, all her possible cross-up tools outside of fjmp. MK are ambiguous as hell. Sometimes they even DON’T cross-up, but still land her on the other side. She has way more than enough in terms of footsies. Besides, her cr. MK and st. LP have good reach and speed, and st. LP confirms into high, simple, meterless damage. For those that know how to work her, she’s VERY endowed.

3. As far as overheads go, yea…I hate it when I think to myself “You know exactly how it looks like. Just react and blow him up.”.

Then I get hit again…=_=

Why not just adjust the hit/hurt box of his Somersault (make it act like a flashkick)? I find the fact that you can’t cross Law up (dat LK Somersault) much worse rather than his ability to combo off his AA while Nina and others can do the same. Their advantage on block could be altered too perhaps since they’re pretty safe for an AA (LK is -7 but moves him backwards so… MK and HK version are only -4)?

EXACTLY. Special moves that are used as AAs or invincible reversals should NOT be merely “jab punishable”. That trade off is skewed. If I do a DP, I either get the DP or get hurt hard. If someone does Somersault or Geyser Kick…they get jabs or nothing at all. Not exactly the best way to put things. A special move AA should be moderately punishable for whiffing or being blocked, but some of them on the Tekken side are simply jab punishable or slightly worse. Not sure why.

Re: Nina’s footsies, I don’t really consider her overhead part of her footsies game, as it’s pretty slow, hasn’t got that great range and doesn’t do anything special like go over lows, like Juri’s Sekku, but I do agree it’s an incredible overhead. Besides that, the reason I said she has flawed footsies is because she doesn’t really have any safe long-range confirms in the same way that characters like Law, Jin, Vega or Bison do. Her best poke is cr.MK, but she can’t buffer it into Geyser Cannon or Skull Splitter, as both are quite unsafe (between -5 and -10, so comfortably jab punishable, and often worse).

Her semi-random Skull Splitters are a neat gimmick, but they are always unsafe, so the risk reward is skewed against Nina - if you guess right, you get 80 damage and a knockdown. If you guess wrong, you eat a full punish for 350-400 damage. Obviously Nina is a great character, and her footsies aren’t BAD by any means, but they do have flaws.

I totally agree on Law’s Somersault. It should be easily punishable, not this -7 and a bunch of pushback malarkey.

P1: Well, Sekku’s 0 on hit. Even if you get hit, if she presses another button, she could eat a reversal for free. For an overhead, Nina’s move has GREAT range on the kick and GREAT speed in general. If you’re blocking low expecting usual footsies, and that overhead’s coming, it’s not like you’re gonna just “react” to it for free. I mean, look at most other overheads. Most don’t have the range, speed, and safety of hers. She can sort of just do it sometimes (not all the time…that’d be stupid…). As for long-range confirms, that just keeps her footsies from being stupid like Chun’s. They don’t necessarily shine like a diamond in comparison to others that do it better (like those you named + Chun), but I wouldn’t say her footsies are flawed at all. She’s got a normal AA, a special AA, good reaching moves, a fast overhead that combos into stuff with meter, good walk speed, and a simple quarter-circle-forward CADC option coupled with a solid forward dash. It’s hardly “flawed” at all. It’s SF char material outside of her reversal option being neutral-jump-able (but that doesn’t leave her that open due to how fast the animation is so…).

P2: There’s a range where they’re practically unpunishable. Kind of like how Elena’s slide can be done at such a range, or Bison’s slide (way far away though). Then the EX version can kind of fly out of nowhere. >_>

Side note: Why is Nina’s super art safe on block? She flies back like 50 miles when I block that move. O_o

[creativecell]

so i finally finished this throwback thursday by watching vanilla infiltration replays…i miss the good ol’ llmhh days…no kappa

[FengShuiEnergy]

Sagat, Ryu, Akuma, Nina, Asuka, Heihachi, Hwoarang, Dudley (hell, especially Dudley) all have easily better overheads off the top of my head. Some of them require meter to be really useful, but then they are REALLY useful. Hwoarang’s f+mk is probably the best command overhead, being +2 on block AND flamingo cancellable and all that.

Hers is still good though. It hops over lows, so if I instinctively do a crouching move to hit her, unlike every other char in the game, I’ll miss, but unlike every other char with an airborne normal, it’s also an overhead. You have to stuff it with a standing move or block it. The other overheads you named can be stuffed with some degree of jab mashing.

Also I love her and Elena they are just so damn happy

1. Elena’s probably one of my fave females in SF. Elena, Sakura, and Cammy. Not sure of the order, but seeing how Elena doesn’t suck in this game…

2. You lied to me!!! Nina was ALL IN MY SH*T!!! Q_Q

Our session makes SO much more sense now…

Well, our session would also lag spike every 15 seconds. X(

And you do love your lows with Ryu…

Well…you launched a few standing ones too…surprising, really. One st. MP attempt and an overhead attempt got launched. q_q

When I get back during whatever break comes next, I’m gonna have a lil 1 on 1 time with XFINITY customer support.

Looking forward to more matches after that’s fixed me boy.

Nina does have footsies with cr. hk/mk and st. Mk/hk to say the least.

So her Skull Splitter doesn’t exist anymore? Don’t give me that “neutral jump it” jazz, either. Kit taught me the hard way that a smart Nina player will lk. Geyser the neutral jump before you neutral jump the Skull Splitter. =_=

2. Nina’s footsies aren’t flawed. Her overhead is fast, can be tag canceled for damage, safe on block, causes a bounce on airborne opponents, chases rolls and back dashes, and has good reach (primarily the second hit). Her other footsies tools are easy confirms into easy damage, and most of her specials are jab punishable at BEST. It’s not like she has low reaching moves. In fact, she has deceptively high amounts of reach, especially with the threat of semi-random Skull Splitters coupled with her dangerous (and unwarranted) Geyser Kick AA keeping opponents where they need to be. To boot, all her possible cross-up tools outside of fjmp. MK are ambiguous as hell. Sometimes they even DON’T cross-up, but still land her on the other side. She has way more than enough in terms of footsies. Besides, her cr. MK and st. LP have good reach and speed, and st. LP confirms into high, simple, meterless damage. For those that know how to work her, she’s VERY endowed.

3. As far as overheads go, yea…I hate it when I think to myself “You know exactly how it looks like. Just react and blow him up.”.

Then I get hit again…=_=

Why not just adjust the hit/hurt box of his Somersault (make it act like a flashkick)? I find the fact that you can’t cross Law up (dat LK Somersault) much worse rather than his ability to combo off his AA while Nina and others can do the same. Their advantage on block could be altered too perhaps since they’re pretty safe for an AA (LK is -7 but moves him backwards so… MK and HK version are only -4)?

EXACTLY. Special moves that are used as AAs or invincible reversals should NOT be merely “jab punishable”. That trade off is skewed. If I do a DP, I either get the DP or get hurt hard. If someone does Somersault or Geyser Kick…they get jabs or nothing at all. Not exactly the best way to put things. A special move AA should be moderately punishable for whiffing or being blocked, but some of them on the Tekken side are simply jab punishable or slightly worse. Not sure why.

Re: Nina’s footsies, I don’t really consider her overhead part of her footsies game, as it’s pretty slow, hasn’t got that great range and doesn’t do anything special like go over lows, like Juri’s Sekku, but I do agree it’s an incredible overhead. Besides that, the reason I said she has flawed footsies is because she doesn’t really have any safe long-range confirms in the same way that characters like Law, Jin, Vega or Bison do. Her best poke is cr.MK, but she can’t buffer it into Geyser Cannon or Skull Splitter, as both are quite unsafe (between -5 and -10, so comfortably jab punishable, and often worse).

Her semi-random Skull Splitters are a neat gimmick, but they are always unsafe, so the risk reward is skewed against Nina - if you guess right, you get 80 damage and a knockdown. If you guess wrong, you eat a full punish for 350-400 damage. Obviously Nina is a great character, and her footsies aren’t BAD by any means, but they do have flaws.

I totally agree on Law’s Somersault. It should be easily punishable, not this -7 and a bunch of pushback malarkey.

P1: Well, Sekku’s 0 on hit. Even if you get hit, if she presses another button, she could eat a reversal for free. For an overhead, Nina’s move has GREAT range on the kick and GREAT speed in general. If you’re blocking low expecting usual footsies, and that overhead’s coming, it’s not like you’re gonna just “react” to it for free. I mean, look at most other overheads. Most don’t have the range, speed, and safety of hers. She can sort of just do it sometimes (not all the time…that’d be stupid…). As for long-range confirms, that just keeps her footsies from being stupid like Chun’s. They don’t necessarily shine like a diamond in comparison to others that do it better (like those you named + Chun), but I wouldn’t say her footsies are flawed at all. She’s got a normal AA, a special AA, good reaching moves, a fast overhead that combos into stuff with meter, good walk speed, and a simple quarter-circle-forward CADC option coupled with a solid forward dash. It’s hardly “flawed” at all. It’s SF char material outside of her reversal option being neutral-jump-able (but that doesn’t leave her that open due to how fast the animation is so…).

P2: There’s a range where they’re practically unpunishable. Kind of like how Elena’s slide can be done at such a range, or Bison’s slide (way far away though). Then the EX version can kind of fly out of nowhere. >_>

Side note: Why is Nina’s super art safe on block? She flies back like 50 miles when I block that move. O_o

Juri’s Sekku is +3 on hit -2 on block. Has more range then Nina’s and hops over lows. Juri’s also moves forward much more then Nina’s. The core differences between them obviously is on CH Nina gets a GB. Nina’s recovers 1f faster then Juri’s too.

[SamuelVimes]

I think another core difference between the two is Ivory Cutter’s ability to tag. That imo puts it on another level than Juri’s.

[FlyingVe]

Really…a glock? Sir c’mere…shows Kit “the wall” NOW this…THIS IS A WEAPON!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/S%26W-44-magnum.jpg

Put that thing away you call a gun and get your hands on this naughty thing.

So… are we gonna start using guns now? because I’m confident I’d win this fight.

[FengShuiEnergy]

I think another core difference between the two is Ivory Cutter’s ability to tag. That imo puts it on another level than Juri’s.

I see it as a trade off for avoiding lows and throws. Funny enough, Nina’s overhead is her really only safe way to SWC on block. If they gave Juri’s OH something unique on CH (that would be awesome) then I could come up with some nice stuff. Plus Juri’s is +3 on hit…Nina’s is +2.

[KitL19]

Really…a glock? Sir c’mere…shows Kit “the wall” NOW this…THIS IS A WEAPON!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/S%26W-44-magnum.jpg

Put that thing away you call a gun and get your hands on this naughty thing.

So… are we gonna start using guns now? because I’m confident I’d win this fight.

How? You wanna bring rock skin to a fight? We all know how that turned out. Just sayin’ =D

@cgpenguin I never said I’d stop; I just wanted to slow down. 2 matches without her out of 20-30 is slowing down. xD

And honestly I don’t think neutral jumping works that well against Nina because it’s not like she relies on using long range strings to get in and even if you do her SS and Geyser use the same directions (qcb and bddb). But damn I need to work on my patience vs Hwoarang. I end up so salty when I play against him it’s unreal. Once he has the momentum it’s just a guessing game. It makes me wonder if Asuka would be a nice counter, but I dunno if I want to suffer from not having a neutral game…

[KitL19]

I think another core difference between the two is Ivory Cutter’s ability to tag. That imo puts it on another level than Juri’s.

I see it as a trade off for avoiding lows and throws. Funny enough, Nina’s overhead is her really only safe way to SWC on block. If they gave Juri’s OH something unique on CH (that would be awesome) then I could come up with some nice stuff. Plus Juri’s is +3 on hit…Nina’s is +2.

I think Ivory gets more damage though because of ground bounce. Also Nina at +2 in your face is a lot scarier compared to Juri at +3 in your face.

[FlyingVe]

Really…a glock? Sir c’mere…shows Kit “the wall” NOW this…THIS IS A WEAPON!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/S%26W-44-magnum.jpg

Put that thing away you call a gun and get your hands on this naughty thing.

So… are we gonna start using guns now? because I’m confident I’d win this fight.

How? You wanna bring rock skin to a fight? We all know how that turned out. Just sayin’ =D

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Final_Fight_(flyer).jpg

@cgpenguin I never said I’d stop; I just wanted to slow down. 2 matches without her out of 20-30 is slowing down. xD

And honestly I don’t think neutral jumping works that well against Nina because it’s not like she relies on using long range strings to get in and even if you do her SS and Geyser use the same directions (qcb and bddb). But damn I need to work on my patience vs Hwoarang. I end up so salty when I play against him it’s unreal. Once he has the momentum it’s just a guessing game. It makes me wonder if Asuka would be a nice counter, but I dunno if I want to suffer from not having a neutral game…

Guy on the ground with a hole in his head suggests the gun wins.

[Saitsu]

Really…a glock? Sir c’mere…shows Kit “the wall” NOW this…THIS IS A WEAPON!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/S%26W-44-magnum.jpg

Put that thing away you call a gun and get your hands on this naughty thing.

So… are we gonna start using guns now? because I’m confident I’d win this fight.

How? You wanna bring rock skin to a fight? We all know how that turned out. Just sayin’ =D

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Final_Fight_(flyer).jpg

@cgpenguin I never said I’d stop; I just wanted to slow down. 2 matches without her out of 20-30 is slowing down. xD

And honestly I don’t think neutral jumping works that well against Nina because it’s not like she relies on using long range strings to get in and even if you do her SS and Geyser use the same directions (qcb and bddb). But damn I need to work on my patience vs Hwoarang. I end up so salty when I play against him it’s unreal. Once he has the momentum it’s just a guessing game. It makes me wonder if Asuka would be a nice counter, but I dunno if I want to suffer from not having a neutral game…

Guy on the ground with a hole in his head suggests the gun wins.

That guy on the ground with a hole in his head also looks very familiar…

[FengShuiEnergy]

Well let’s do some math shall we? Say Juri and Nina are fighting eachother for example. Nina lands her Oh without a CH but plans to continue pressure with her 3f jab. Now Juri wants to reversal with ex senpusha…guess who wins?

Now Juri lands her Oh without a CH and also plans to continue pressure with cl.lk. Nina want to reversal and stop the momentum with ex geyser cannon. Guess who wins?

Mind you this is just a small example of being +3 and +2 can doing a little math can do.

Plus I’m not talking about CH’s right now. With CH’s the game changes. Keep it simple right now. Also IF Nina only hits with the last part of her overhead I don’t she will be in range to use her 3f jab. I doin’t even think she will be in range to use her 4f normal either. Juri on the other hand regardless of where she lands hers will 9/10 be a 2 frame gap. Thigns like this can have an effect with using OH’s as footise tools.

Juri’s OH I think is a much better footsie tool then’s nina’s due to having more range (nina’s first hit of her OH has like laughable range) thus relying on the kick to either CH or just hit.

Plus hers doesn’t have the natural low/throw crush like Juri’s.

Now Throw in Ch’s and whatnot and yeah Nina’s will be better simply because of dmg output. Basically the CH is what makes Nina’s OH potent.

[FengShuiEnergy]

Dex, what’s Nina’s max dmg she can do for her OH on CH with and without 1 bar solo?

[cg123n1]

Sagat, Ryu, Akuma, Nina, Asuka, Heihachi, Hwoarang, Dudley (hell, especially Dudley) all have easily better overheads off the top of my head. Some of them require meter to be really useful, but then they are REALLY useful. Hwoarang’s f+mk is probably the best command overhead, being +2 on block AND flamingo cancellable and all that.

Hers is still good though. It hops over lows, so if I instinctively do a crouching move to hit her, unlike every other char in the game, I’ll miss, but unlike every other char with an airborne normal, it’s also an overhead. You have to stuff it with a standing move or block it. The other overheads you named can be stuffed with some degree of jab mashing.

Also I love her and Elena they are just so damn happy

1. Elena’s probably one of my fave females in SF. Elena, Sakura, and Cammy. Not sure of the order, but seeing how Elena doesn’t suck in this game…

2. You lied to me!!! Nina was ALL IN MY SH*T!!! Q_Q

Our session makes SO much more sense now…

Well, our session would also lag spike every 15 seconds. X(

And you do love your lows with Ryu…

Well…you launched a few standing ones too…surprising, really. One st. MP attempt and an overhead attempt got launched. q_q

When I get back during whatever break comes next, I’m gonna have a lil 1 on 1 time with XFINITY customer support.

Looking forward to more matches after that’s fixed me boy.

Nina does have footsies with cr. hk/mk and st. Mk/hk to say the least.

So her Skull Splitter doesn’t exist anymore? Don’t give me that “neutral jump it” jazz, either. Kit taught me the hard way that a smart Nina player will lk. Geyser the neutral jump before you neutral jump the Skull Splitter. =_=

2. Nina’s footsies aren’t flawed. Her overhead is fast, can be tag canceled for damage, safe on block, causes a bounce on airborne opponents, chases rolls and back dashes, and has good reach (primarily the second hit). Her other footsies tools are easy confirms into easy damage, and most of her specials are jab punishable at BEST. It’s not like she has low reaching moves. In fact, she has deceptively high amounts of reach, especially with the threat of semi-random Skull Splitters coupled with her dangerous (and unwarranted) Geyser Kick AA keeping opponents where they need to be. To boot, all her possible cross-up tools outside of fjmp. MK are ambiguous as hell. Sometimes they even DON’T cross-up, but still land her on the other side. She has way more than enough in terms of footsies. Besides, her cr. MK and st. LP have good reach and speed, and st. LP confirms into high, simple, meterless damage. For those that know how to work her, she’s VERY endowed.

3. As far as overheads go, yea…I hate it when I think to myself “You know exactly how it looks like. Just react and blow him up.”.

Then I get hit again…=_=

Why not just adjust the hit/hurt box of his Somersault (make it act like a flashkick)? I find the fact that you can’t cross Law up (dat LK Somersault) much worse rather than his ability to combo off his AA while Nina and others can do the same. Their advantage on block could be altered too perhaps since they’re pretty safe for an AA (LK is -7 but moves him backwards so… MK and HK version are only -4)?

EXACTLY. Special moves that are used as AAs or invincible reversals should NOT be merely “jab punishable”. That trade off is skewed. If I do a DP, I either get the DP or get hurt hard. If someone does Somersault or Geyser Kick…they get jabs or nothing at all. Not exactly the best way to put things. A special move AA should be moderately punishable for whiffing or being blocked, but some of them on the Tekken side are simply jab punishable or slightly worse. Not sure why.

Re: Nina’s footsies, I don’t really consider her overhead part of her footsies game, as it’s pretty slow, hasn’t got that great range and doesn’t do anything special like go over lows, like Juri’s Sekku, but I do agree it’s an incredible overhead. Besides that, the reason I said she has flawed footsies is because she doesn’t really have any safe long-range confirms in the same way that characters like Law, Jin, Vega or Bison do. Her best poke is cr.MK, but she can’t buffer it into Geyser Cannon or Skull Splitter, as both are quite unsafe (between -5 and -10, so comfortably jab punishable, and often worse).

Her semi-random Skull Splitters are a neat gimmick, but they are always unsafe, so the risk reward is skewed against Nina - if you guess right, you get 80 damage and a knockdown. If you guess wrong, you eat a full punish for 350-400 damage. Obviously Nina is a great character, and her footsies aren’t BAD by any means, but they do have flaws.

I totally agree on Law’s Somersault. It should be easily punishable, not this -7 and a bunch of pushback malarkey.

P1: Well, Sekku’s 0 on hit. Even if you get hit, if she presses another button, she could eat a reversal for free. For an overhead, Nina’s move has GREAT range on the kick and GREAT speed in general. If you’re blocking low expecting usual footsies, and that overhead’s coming, it’s not like you’re gonna just “react” to it for free. I mean, look at most other overheads. Most don’t have the range, speed, and safety of hers. She can sort of just do it sometimes (not all the time…that’d be stupid…). As for long-range confirms, that just keeps her footsies from being stupid like Chun’s. They don’t necessarily shine like a diamond in comparison to others that do it better (like those you named + Chun), but I wouldn’t say her footsies are flawed at all. She’s got a normal AA, a special AA, good reaching moves, a fast overhead that combos into stuff with meter, good walk speed, and a simple quarter-circle-forward CADC option coupled with a solid forward dash. It’s hardly “flawed” at all. It’s SF char material outside of her reversal option being neutral-jump-able (but that doesn’t leave her that open due to how fast the animation is so…).

P2: There’s a range where they’re practically unpunishable. Kind of like how Elena’s slide can be done at such a range, or Bison’s slide (way far away though). Then the EX version can kind of fly out of nowhere. >_>

Side note: Why is Nina’s super art safe on block? She flies back like 50 miles when I block that move. O_o

Juri’s Sekku is +3 on hit -2 on block. Has more range then Nina’s and hops over lows. Juri’s also moves forward much more then Nina’s. The core differences between them obviously is on CH Nina gets a GB. Nina’s recovers 1f faster then Juri’s too.

Good catch there, but seeing how she’s only got as low as 4 frames on her fastest normals…that doesn’t necessarily change the notion that someone could squeeze a DP in there for free. An invincible one anyway. Doesn’t make me “right” though. =/

Really…a glock? Sir c’mere…shows Kit “the wall” NOW this…THIS IS A WEAPON!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/S%26W-44-magnum.jpg

Put that thing away you call a gun and get your hands on this naughty thing.

So… are we gonna start using guns now? because I’m confident I’d win this fight.

How? You wanna bring rock skin to a fight? We all know how that turned out. Just sayin’ =D

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Final_Fight_(flyer).jpg

@cgpenguin I never said I’d stop; I just wanted to slow down. 2 matches without her out of 20-30 is slowing down. xD

And honestly I don’t think neutral jumping works that well against Nina because it’s not like she relies on using long range strings to get in and even if you do her SS and Geyser use the same directions (qcb and bddb). But damn I need to work on my patience vs Hwoarang. I end up so salty when I play against him it’s unreal. Once he has the momentum it’s just a guessing game. It makes me wonder if Asuka would be a nice counter, but I dunno if I want to suffer from not having a neutral game…

ASUKA?

Yea. GREAT CHOICE. Totally would do it. Yup. Pick her. Better than Nina. Do it. Now. Yes.

Please…

I think another core difference between the two is Ivory Cutter’s ability to tag. That imo puts it on another level than Juri’s.

I see it as a trade off for avoiding lows and throws. Funny enough, Nina’s overhead is her really only safe way to SWC on block. If they gave Juri’s OH something unique on CH (that would be awesome) then I could come up with some nice stuff. Plus Juri’s is +3 on hit…Nina’s is +2.

Hardly. Xiaoyu’s can do that too but it leads into combos. Juri’s overhead is really nothing but a minor bother until they’re down to a pixel of health. Not trying to sound like a know-it-all, but Juri’s overhead isn’t that good. Better than some like Sakura’s, but it’s not that hot cause it relies on counter hits to be effective, unlike many others. In my case, if I can help it, I just continue to hold down-back anyway. It’s one hit that gets no extra damage. Why would I bother? Nina on the other hand can do hers and switch off into solid tag tag damage. I’m much more afraid of Nina’s overhead than Juri’s.