SFxT General Discussion #3 - Still Alive

[Songi]

o boy, dominating heel mixups are soo damn troll

This is the sole reason why Lili is one of the most hated Tekken girls across the globe. She’s hot and hated…such a deadly combination.

[Bunnycap]

I really hate [S]juri’s jump arc as a matter of fact i hate all juris cause that all they do. =/ [/S]sf female characters in this game. Poison doesn’t count.

[Freakmonkey]

is this the start of the hwoarang army??

DUDE, I saw you on ssfevo and I was like “I gotta try me some of that”. I was working on the mk-mk loop and I can get it semi consistently. But I don’t really have the muscle memory to do s.lk, s.hkxxhk hh after the overhead

[Songi]

I’m not gonna exactly say what my weakness is but fuck I hate jumps, especially ones I cannot anti-air without trading.

[RagingRay]

DUDE, I saw you on ssfevo and I was like “I gotta try me some of that”. I was working on the mk-mk loop and I can get it semi consistently. But I don’t really have the muscle memory to do s.lk, s.hkxxhk hh after the overhead

i learned that combo from a thread i saw on the forums lol, it was more to show off its not really applicaple except it gains a TON of meter and pushes them alot farther to the corner than his regular bnb

[TZA]

I really hate [S]juri’s jump arc as a matter of fact i hate all juris cause that all they do. =/ [/S]sf female characters in this game. Poison doesn’t count.

I see what you did there.

BTW, we might go to Takedown Tuesday this week.

PS, I hate your interwebs.

[alexlkd]

Good stuff.

Wow. Its good to see others who also share similar philosophies as I do. I also don’t keep anything secret. When people ask what I am doing I let them know as clearly as possible everything that I am doing and ways to defend against it. Likewise I let them know my options to their options. When I play to win, my goal is to outplay someone, not to rely on their lack of knowledge to win.

I used to make videos on youtube to help people, but not so much anymore. Unfortunately not as many people care about what I say so I try to only help those who ask.

[Thancruz]

is this the start of the hwoarang army??

shhhhhh we don’t want to get nerfed like Lili is gonna be,just keep doing MP+LP chain and no one has to know Hwoarang is actually a good character…

[will08]

If 2 footsie based characters are fighting each other you both are consistently looking for the same hit confirm over and over. If you dont get it, then adjust spacing and fish again. The first to get a hit will most likely win. In footsie battles i wonder if its worth trying to whiff punish, In SF4 if your whiff punish gets punished (lol) then you dont get hurt much however in this game i feel that theres more risk going for the whiff punish since if you miss and your opponent gets the whiff punish then it will hurt. I dont know what you footsie based players have to say about this? Take the risk/reward and go for the whiff punish? Or adjust the spacing and make sure your attack will hit (taking this option you will be hit confirming)? This is what happened with my FT5 with BigBoss

Looking on what the footsie players think bigboss and chaos for example
EDIT - I suppose i should say which one i would choose. In sf4 i would always attempt the whiff punish but imo its not worth the risk/reward in sfxt. I think your best option is to adjust the spacing and make sure your attack hits and hit confirm it.

ggs to TheBigBoss - our matches were fun but no one will be able to enjoy the Lame game and constant time outs. I personally wouldn’t want to sit there and watch people fish for 99 ticks. At that point the watcher already knows what each of them is trying to do so they wont get anything out of it anyways, a whiff punish is a whiff punish thats pretty much it. I can now agree on Capcoms choice to increase the health recovery time in this game. At this level you can have ALL the set ups and cheap stuff but if you never hit your opponent you lose lol

[Bunnycap]

PS, I hate your interwebs.

I hate it more.

[Dr.Grammar]

is 17f start up difficult to react to for an overhead?

Startup Business Name Ideas

See for yourself.

[Freakmonkey]

i learned that combo from a thread i saw on the forums lol, it was more to show off its not really applicaple except it gains a TON of meter and pushes them alot farther to the corner than his regular bnb

Would you say it’s good for mix-ups though? I was trying to see if there was any tricky stuff I could do if I can stance cancel the mk-mk like that.

[SolidRose]

This is the sole reason why Lili is one of the most hated Tekken girls across the globe. She’s hot and hated…such a deadly combination.

I think that you only scratched the surface there pal!

• Having a pretty much non-existent fighting style that would never work on a human being but is deadly and effective in the world of Tekken and Street Fighter X Tekken
• Rich and snobby personality
• The fan boys and girls who constantly keep on going on about her day in day out about things like her hair, what she’s wearing etc.
• On top of this, having a high damage output (to an extent) in both games

What’s not to hate lol!?

But in all seriousness I actually hated Lili with a PASSION!!! both when I first saw her, when I first fought against her, heard her speak, the works!

Fast forward a couple years later and now I’m actually playing her and firstly not complaining about it and actually enjoying it.

I guess growing older does make you sit down and actually be more mature for once…

AHHH Who am I kidding!

[RagingRay]

Would you say it’s good for mix-ups though? I was trying to see if there was any tricky stuff I could do if I can stance cancel the mk-mk like that.

tbh not really, since most people will simply mash mash mash through the entirety of the combo i wouldnt risk goin for anything else during that, im workin on a setup with it though

[Songi]

Ugh my reads with my raw launchers are so off today! Neutral jumps are fuckin kickin my ass too. I need to fix this right away.

[Miguel_Rossington]

Ugh my reads with my raw launchers are so off today! Neutral jumps are fuckin kickin my ass too. I need to fix this right away.

Be happy, your good at this game. Im Ugh’ing because i Cant get over 6000 points. I suck.

[Songi]

Be happy, your good at this game. Im Ugh’ing because i Cant get over 6000 points. I suck.

Compared to everyone else around my rank I suck, so basically I’m a fraud. o_O

[SolidRose]

If 2 footsie based characters are fighting each other you both are consistently looking for the same hit confirm over and over. If you dont get it, then adjust spacing and fish again. The first to get a hit will most likely win. In footsie battles i wonder if its worth trying to whiff punish, In SF4 if your whiff punish gets punished (lol) then you dont get hurt much however in this game i feel that theres more risk going for the whiff punish since if you miss and your opponent gets the whiff punish then it will hurt. I dont know what you footsie based players have to say about this? Take the risk/reward and go for the whiff punish? Or adjust the spacing and make sure your attack will hit (taking this option you will be hit confirming)? This is what happened with my FT5 with BigBoss

Looking on what the footsie players think bigboss and chaos for example
EDIT - I suppose i should say which one i would choose. In sf4 i would always attempt the whiff punish but imo its not worth the risk/reward in sfxt. I think your best option is to adjust the spacing and make sure your attack hits and hit confirm it.

ggs to TheBigBoss - our matches were fun but no one will be able to enjoy the Lame game and constant time outs. I personally wouldn’t want to sit there and watch people fish for 99 ticks. At that point the watcher already knows what each of them is trying to do so they wont get anything out of it anyways, a whiff punish is a whiff punish thats pretty much it. I can now agree on Capcoms choice to increase the health recovery time in this game. At this level you can have ALL the set ups and cheap stuff but if you never hit your opponent you lose lol

I’m not sure to be honest but when I play footsies with people, I tend to aim for the whiff punishes a lot more mainly because I think whiff punishment is stronger in this game due to the chains.

But then again adjusting your spacing does lead to…well whiff punishment if you look at it that way in my opinion.

I think Yipes once put it best in the fact that a footsie battle is kind of like a boxing match. Although in personal experience its more something I feel in the fact I always use a couple quick pokes to mentally say: ‘Come at me bro’ just to see what they counter poke with and then mess with the spacing from there.

Now I look at it, I think I may have just re-iterated what you just said. This one is pretty confusing o_O.

[The_Big_Boss]

Oh, really? The random scrubs on XBL ranked aren’t advancing the game? Tell me more. I could log on AE on XBL right now and join random ranked matches and people will be doing the same shit they’ve been doing for the last 2 years. Or better yet, let me go get on Marvel online and critique the average level of play. Since when are random online players the gauge used to measure a game’s progression?

Furthermore, the fact that you assume stagnation is pretty condescending. Jibbo and I come up with new, ridiculous strategies and techniques on nearly a daily basis. We also pick up random characters people aren’t playing and innovate them from the ground up: how to play them in general, discover optimized combos, learn applications for non-used moves, etc. Looking back at the FT9 set Jibbo and I played ~1 month ago is already hilarious, because we’ve both evolved our main teams so much from then.

Just because we’re not innovating the tech you think is the game’s future, doesn’t mean we’re not innovating. You need to get over this standing reset thing, already. Sorry, but it’s just not good. The theory is great, but the application just isn’t there. There’s maybe 1 or 2 standing resets in the game that even remotely justifiable, and even those are only situational and/or positionally dependent.

Look at Nina for example, you do your standing reset, and get, what? A c.MK/Ivory Cutter 50/50? That’s cool, I guess. Or, you could just get max damage, stand a char length away, react to their roll decision by walking towards them…and apply the exact same mixup from even closer, which gives you more options. What’s the point of forcing them to “wakeup” in a certain place if you aren’t even getting a better mixup than you would otherwise? At that point, you’re just sacrificing damage for nothing. In this case, I would argue worse than nothing.

It’s just like the auto-correct meaties on wakeup in the sense that the theory is fantastic, but the applications just aren’t there. There are a handful of great ones, and that’s about it. Just because you’re not seeing people do this stuff doesn’t mean the game is stagnant; it just might not exist at all. No amount of my experimentation is going to give Julia a special move that’s slow startup and plus on block that I can use to autocorrect. Sorry, it just doesn’t exist.

And again, you have to ask yourself the question of “what’s the value of this?” Let’s say I discovered some magical auto correct meaty with Julia with gives me +2 on block. Again, that’s cool, I guess. Or, I could just stand back a little, react to their roll decision by walking toward them, and then just meaty Party Crasher them for the same +2. This is why I said Gief’s version of this tech is almost guaranteed to be the best one, because he gets the best possible position for him, which also happens to be a position he couldn’t guarantee otherwise, which also happens to be arguably the best position for any character in the game. Even the Heihachi one, as cute as it is, is pretty redundant. You can follow their roll decision manually, on reaction with t.MP for approximately the same (huge) frame advantage…and it’s a low.

It’s just that not that relevant. I know you want it to be, because you have these issues with rolling for some reason, but these “solutions” to the “problem” don’t actually do anything for the most part, which is why you’re not seeing anyone else do them. I’m not saying all avenues shouldn’t be explored; the Gief OS is fantastic for him and was a great creation. But that’s for him.

When I said that, I was trying to not get into it too much, but what I really meant by “for now I’m lazy” was “for now, I have better things to invest my time into” as far as my list of things to improve on in this game. Neither Julia nor Steve have good specials that end in towards that I can easily OS into my AC and just be done with it. So, my main option would be to back dash, which is obviously a lot more cumbersome, and will take significant practice. The amount of times I miss an AC and get a launcher right now is maybe 1 in 15…maybe. Usually, when someone blocks a launcher, it’s because I was legitimately trying to do a launcher. So a better use of my training time is with other things on my list to work on with my team. Eventually, yes, I’ll be working with this, but not while I have things that come into play more than once every few hours.

Please don’t speak for me, because you’re not even close. That’s just straight up not my philosophy. I don’t keep anything secret. I don’t play fighting games for a cheap win cashing in on someone’s ignorance or unfamiliarity. I’m playing because I’m going to outplay you, straight up. Any tactic I develop and rely on, is going to be one that can work on anyone, regardless of if they know what I’m doing or not. That’s not to say I don’t have or use gimmicks when the time is right, but that’s why they’re called gimmicks.

I go out of my way to explain to people exactly what it is I’m doing and exactly what your options are, and then I’ll even go one step further and explain what my options are against your options so you can understand the full risk vs reward of the entire situation. When people are getting hit by the same thing over and over, I tell them exactly what’s going on, why they’re getting hit, and explain their better options or how to counter it. This is my philosophy, because the only way I can learn to properly apply my strategies and understand all the options is if I can fight someone that also understand them. This is why when a player like you plays a player like me, you might do well for the first 30 seconds, or round, or even game; but once I use my own knowledge of your character to adjust to what you’re doing, you’re basically done, because you have little to no experience with the “next level” of the strategy.

The only time I’ll intentionally “hide” something is if I need to keep it hidden while I’m testing it in real matches, to prevent my opponents from messing with my testing (Hawthorne effect). If I’m testing a new anti-DP strat, I’m not gonna tell you about the tech until I’m done testing it, because knowing I’m trying it might make you DP less. Usually, though, these kinds of things become obvious once I’ve done it once. Once you see me use Law’s EX Dragon Stance to armor your DP xx switch and then punish both chars, the secret is kinda out.

Again, I’m not disagreeing with your opinion on “saving” tech, but the rest of this is such a load of bullshit. We never made the game look good? At which tourneys that were streamed? SFxT was streamed at what, two majors before people stopped caring? And you’re surprised there was no crazy high level play within these first months? I never got to go to a tournament that was properly streamed. The only SFxT major I had a chance to go to was CEO, where top three was streamed, on the second stream station. This was three months after the game had been out.

Jibbo impressed a lot of people at Civil War, but that was so close after release that we still weren’t that good yet, and were still playing very basic. Tatsu started dominating WNF…after they switched back to 1v1 and stopped streaming it a couple of months into the game. Sethlolol won a NE major (NEC?) with Law/Kuma, doing some really cool shit. Too bad no one saw it, because, surprise, it wasn’t streamed. Or maybe you’re talking about Evo, where only top 4 was streamed, and it was teams. Give me a break.

I’m not disagreeing that the early streams didn’t make the game look interesting, but stop trying to put that blame on us. People judged the game on month 2 game play, and are dumb enough to assume that the game isn’t going to evolve. They’re pretty quick to forget the early months of Marvel where Marn was complaining about how bad Zero was because no one had figured out anything beyond MHS MMHS Super.

When it comes to having ideas and spreading information, again, let’s be real here. People don’t give a shit. They didn’t give a shit after month 1, and they don’t give a shit now. Jibbo and I could put out infinite videos of our sets like the first one we did, where I analyzed the gameplay and explained the higher level stuff we were doing, but no one gives a shit. It was great for the people who are already playing to help them improve, which is why I did that video in the first place, and I’m more than happy to continue to do stuff like that in the future for those people, but I’m not going to stand up on my seat with a bullhorn and try to get haters’ attention when they don’t give a shit. If they want to hate the game, they’re going to hate the game, period.

Well put. Somebody needs to get a copyright on this essay lol

[Miguel_Rossington]

Compared to everyone else around my rank I suck, so basically I’m a fraud. o_O

Well at least you can destroy a B/B+. I can hold my own but sometimes i just cant do ANYTHING.