Bonchan’s neutral with sagat is better than his karins.
I think some people just click in this game with a characters tools and neutral play regardless of how good the character is.
Like if sagat was even mid to mid high tier you’d see debates on if he’s top 5 strictly because of how good bonchan plays him.
Kind of like punk with Karin, and smug with rog.
I feel like capcom might not even buff sagat like they could strictly because of Bonchan.
Sagat does pretty much what Capcom wanted him to do in this game. Actually play like Sagat for the most part, but that’s about all they’re going to give. They’re not going to give him any extra crazy Menat/Guile type stuff to push him over the edge (and even they’re in danger of no longer being able to solo win events regularly), but that puts him at decent counter pick tier at least.
Does he play like Sagat? His normals are complete garbage and he has trouble maintaining a midrange wall to enable fireballs.
His normals work well enough. If Bonchan can do what I showed in that gif, they work. Not good enough, but they work.
He has the matchups that he can wall in effectively and the ones less so, but that’s where the counter pick tier comes in.
yeah I’ve given up hope on them really buffing him.
I’d like plus tiger shots at the very least, and more juggle points (or eased?) on moves.
Which game do you think the shit characters are better in? The game with the throw loops or the one without.
You dilute the tools down all your left with is … Cammy and Rashid and Akuma still being good.
Plus would be stupid. The shots already have basically better data than they did in IV any way. Plus the game doesn’t have focus so whoever doesn’t have great anti projectile options gets stomped on neutrally from the get go (then some others still have to build resource first). More juggle points or easier access to V Skill makes sense.
The one without considering S4 is the most balanced the game has been since release.
Zaf said it best.
If everyone’s got a anti fireball, why doesn’t Sagat have an anti neutral.
I agree it’s the most balanced. But you still ain’t seeing Ryu or Sagat - ever.
Think if Bonchan wasn’t alive - we would not have seen Sagat in a tourney. That’s pretty scary lol.
The same reason Falke doesn’t have a real go get in anti neutral. They are just designed to be locked in as hard spacing characters with a few gimmicks/frame traps if they earn the spot. Falke does have an anti neutral move but it’s her DP and it basically just stops the neutral more than lets her in like ex flip or ex eagle spike.
They would be bashed until they are nerfed if they got that shit any way, so they’re just not going to get that shit. I’m fine with using those characters for purposeful matchups in tournaments and leaving the rest to the other characters.
Zoner characters inherently are statistically bad at winning tournaments. The only time they can get a good ratio is when they get outlier offense like ST Sim or early S2/3 Guile/Menat.
And I prolly won’t ever see a Cody, you’re acting like we had more than 1 Sagat in IVs lifespan. It was basically just Bonchan after vanilla.
If Shazyy would get out of his house you’d see Cody at least a little bit. Poifuru with an arcade cab might see him too.
Bring that shit my way. Lmao
Right… Were you even watching SF4
Maybe not in CPT events, but at the most important weekly in Brazil, Tiger Upper Quarta, Alexis got his Sagat to GFs three times this year already.
Ended up 2nd place in all of them so far, but it is a matter of time till he wins one. He just needs to not get Rog or a spastic Ken opponent at the GFs.
Also I don’t know about command grabs being worse per se in SFV. Having a command grab is hella stronk.
That’s the thing. If zoner players were smart they would just have a pocket character vs Rog or Ken.
Instead they have to hold onto their honest values and not have that pocket character. Just going to play Sagat and Ryu all day because that’s going to work out in the end.
Name me a top 8 Sagat that isn’t Bonchan or pre2012 Sanford.
Prolly rose tinting again.
Not really related to anything, but one of the old SFIV veterans that left when SFV dropped actually joined an offline session yesterday and played Sagat because “he’s the closest thing to an SFIV character”. Everyone died. He got a 50 game win streak at one point, and when the streak was broken he kept going 70-30 vs a guy that has multiple CPT top 8s.