SFV Lounge: It was coming and it CAME HOME. Ono is your Evo 2018 Chamion

Sounds more like you just like low tier heroes to me.

Menat’s VT1 is hella fun. One of the most fun things in the game, it allows the most creativity out of any character with the sheer amount of things you can do with it. Akuma is a ton of fun 'cause of the sheer amount of strong options he has and things he can do (only thing I think is too silly regardless of the strength of the rest of the cast is whiffed fireball xx VTC). Cammy is fun 'cause she’s the one character who’s really strong who can also just play a solid neutral game due to her walkspeed and buttons (her buttons aren’t “un-whiff punishable,” only reason it may seem that way is weaker normals from the rest of the cast, which isn’t her fault).

And again, I think that’s mostly the case because a lot of the cast is limited in what they can do, which limits the options they have against the better characters and their “crazy” things. Give weaker characters more tools, they have more to combat different situations, and the whole game gets better.

Remember how a lot of people were really liking how things felt when a lot of characters had strong options in the earlier betas, and then how much worse people felt things were getting when Capcom just kept nerfing things? Think of it like that.

1 Like

Cammy’s cr.mp is 17 frames total. That’s 283ms. Average human reaction time is 215Ms. Add on 6 frames of input lag, that becomes 315ms. That walk forward cr.mp is mathematically un-whiffpunishable outside of a prediction.

I don’t like the idea of a game where you have a matchup where two top tier characters are playing a game of unreactable buffer chicken.

That is not real player v player interaction. That is not fun.

…let me get this straight.

The button you’re complaining about barely has any range and is exclusively for counter-poking. In a genre of fighting games where normals of a similar type have historically recovered even faster than Cammy’s SFV crmp and have hit farther.

You must really hate 2D fighting games then.

1 Like

I’m gonna presume this is sarcasm as you cannot be serious. Ob Boom has ALWAYS been a thing. Check your history, buddy boy.

I don’t have enough faith in Capcom to believe they will be able to just buff the weaker characters in a balanced manner. I don’t think they know how to put at least almost everyone on the same level of fun/competitiveness. Instead they’ve always taken the easiest route, nerfing 5 characters sounds easier than making the others 27/29. Even in 3.5 they were able to don’t improve enough those who needs improvements, thanks to this tournaments are just a 5 characters affair now with one or two of the others to fill the top 8 sometimes. When characters like Fang,Ed,Alex, Zeku, etc. are on streaming the chat goes nuts, seeing them played becomes an event. Now it’s hard to fight them even online. We’ll see.

No, it’s not “exclusively” used for counter-poking. Dudley st.HK in SF4 was a counter-poke, in that you press this button when you have a read on an opponent’s button and crush it, the risk being its high recovery should your read be wrong. You are deliberately countering their poke.

Cammy cr.mp is not that. It is not deliberate. It is a button that you press, and press, and press, and press. That sir is not counterpoking, it’s buffering.

I was, but Guile has always that walkspeed? He was always able to recover in time for a FK with the SB still on screen?

Guile isn’t broken at all, but definitely seems like Capcom copy/paste his SF2 version on a game where his basic tools with the classic properties makes him too good compared to the rest.

sigh

USF4

Cammy crmp

5/4/7, 15 frames total.

Dudley crmp

5/2/11, 17 frames total.

Cody crmp

5/3/10, 17 frames total.

Guy crmp

6/3/9, 17 frames total.

E. Ryu crmp

4/4/8, 15 frames total.

All of these are unreactable buffer normals. You can press and press and press and press these with very low risk of being whiff punished on reaction. Oh man you remember all of those times where USF4 games were ruined by turning into buffer chicken? That was terrible!

Or that time in SF2 when Cammy’s crmk was only 16 frames total! Man that was absolutely terrible for that game, you’d never be able to whiff punish that thing! You could just press and press and press it!

3 Likes

Of all Cammy good normals, cr.mp doesn’t look like the one to complain at to me.

1 Like

SF4 had lvl1 focus attack counter-hit crumple across the cast to beat empty buffers.

SF2 had much stronger mid-range and movement speed in general so it was harder to walk someone down with stupidly good buffer normals.

SFV has shit mid range and walk speeds in general and no universal system to beat oppression (V-Reversals are literally a joke against someone like Cammy).

So you’re saying to fix the problem we need to give more characters good normals and movement.

Good boy! You’re learning!

7 Likes

Not what I said, my point from the beginning is that I don’t want this game to end up being everyone buffed up to Cammy level because you only need to watch Cammy mirrors to know why that’s an awful idea.

At least Cammy mirrors are footsies battle where VT madness isn’t the core of the entire match. Cr.mp is a good party starter, but it’s nothing oppressive. Can’t really staggering with it, she can counter you with st.hp, but only if you press right after. In general I think Cammy, Akuma, Menat, Guile and Ibuki are just made better than the rest from the neutral.

The discussion looks strange, you wasn’t that annoyed with SFV when Abigail was flat out stupid.

Guile’s booms are + OB because he has to charge.
Falke’s shots are - OB because… she has to… charge.

1 Like

Actually, hers are because she is insecure and lies about her weight.
But I will be all for to make them 0 ob or even plus ob!
Buff Falke to top tier.

1 Like

Well, when Guile has to charge he loses the ability to walk forward.

When Falke charges she can move freely to position herself for a whiff punish with it and she can also shoot it while airborne

…I’m assuming I’m taking a shitpost too seriously but that’s nothing new for me XP

It’s a VesperArcade quote, but honestly, seeing how dirt easy it is to charge in this game and how Guile’s normals compliment everything about him, I don’t see why Falke with her slow normals and limited options shouldn’t be at 0 OB

I’m pretty sure I was quite open in saying that Abigail was pretty dumb, I still think he is, his counters are just more relevant now that he’s weaker overall.

SFV is just an annoying ass game, especially to watch. I don’t know how many times I’ve shook my head at some gross one-sided shit that started because of a wakeup 3f or because of an air reset or an errant crush counter or a last second cr.lp AA or a V-Trigger comeback etc. etc. etc.

What’s ticking me off isn’t just how far ahead the top tiers are, it’s that they’re top tier for completely one-sided and non-interactive reasons.

It almost doesn’t matter how good of a player you are, if the Menat’s labbed their setups, you literally just have to guess and hope you’re not left in a bad enough situation that you stand no hope of getting back in on her again.

You literally actually physically cannot as a human being react to Cammy cr.mp. She is going to walk you down because her walk speed is better than yours, she is going to press that button and it’ll either tag your character’s clumsy excuse for a medium, or she’s going to be completely safe. She’ll knock you down and you will have no escape options unless you’ve a frame 1 reversal. God help you if your V-Reversal is 17 frames startup.

It doesn’t matter how good you are, Akuma red fireball VT1 is almost always going to get him out of a bad situation and put you into one.

It doesn’t matter how good you are, outside of Ibuki fucking up her VT2 is an essentially 100% guaranteed mixup that you can’t avoid.

All this shit you have to deal with and you can’t do anything about because there’s no consistent way to outplay this crap, you have to accept the fact that it’s effectively the game that’s oppressing you in these situations, not your opponent, it barely matters who they are so long as they’ve practiced their post activation setups and you can still lose solely to shit like the above.

Bro, I don’t wanna talk no more with you. Guile’s walk speed has been decent at best from sf2 to sfiv. Throw Boom, walk, throw Boom jump get flash kicked has always been a thing. Guile’s ain’t gonna setplay you to death, he just wins off the fundamentals of SF. Footsie, AA throw fireball.

Fam, but hasn’t every SF in history had some oppressive setups that you were bound to face in a match?

SF2: Sagat Tiger Shot spam, Vega wall dive, Boxer everything
SF3; Yun, Chun, Aegis Unblockables
SF4; Vortex, unblockable, Seth, C Viper whatever, Cammy cross up dive kick into death, Akuma
SFV: TBC

And perhaps it’s me, but what’s COMPLETELY safe in SFV? Whatever you do something is at stake, if the read is right. Like your example of Cammy Cr.Mp. It can be whiff punished, CC/priority punished. But meh.

7 Likes