SFV Lounge: Cammy at the Falken bottom, Makoto is in final phases, Leo Alex is broken

What should’ve happened by now is there should be more critical mechanics like V-reversal that consume the V-gauge placing further stress on managing it as a resource. Right now it’s a no brainer in most match ups to save for VT, not only to unlock the comeback factor but also to do fun crazy shit.

I’m a proponent of tying new and/or existing recovery mechanics to the gauge, and adding a secondary V-reversal.

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in larger gaming news

Grookey Gang reigns supreme

Behead all those who do not like Grookey

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Why wait to get start the party, have the option from the jump for the nuts. Lower how much people get for V trigger via taking damage and see who can out nut who, then play sf after they all get there rocks off.

Not against anyone worth their salt. Hyde could have use Veil Off(burst). He could have used Guard Thrust(Alpha Counter). Could have used vorpal numerous times and go for DP. Could have punished in between since Vatista naturally gets pushed away from the Shield blocks. Only time I see Vatista mains getting away with bloody murder like this is for people who don’t know the matchup.

Better make it count with no meter and the other person sitting on V reversal

Pfft grass starter, smh.

Would I be allowed to have multiple Rashid VT1’s on the screen at the same time?

Sounds like fun times! :coffee:

I can only speak from what I’ve heard, but a few of my peers who played NRS fighters have gone on to be both designers and QA folk there, so I do hear a bit of the other side.

Basically, it’s almost always an issue of time and resources. The reason MK9 and Injustice 1 and MKX came out and then have a lot of post release patches was because they were often putting out fires they had known were there by didn’t have a fire hose to put it out nor firemen to help spot where the fire was worst.

This isn’t always the case, as sometimes surprises sneak in and come out way stronger than anticipated. But even then, the only way to make it tolerable is, unfortunately, to tone down a core design of the character, which makes them weak. This happened to Deadshot in I2; by design he was either going to be way too good at keeping people out or just be a partially effective zoner with middling damage and offense.

The ppl who make the decisions are big fans of tournaments and watch a lot, so that may color their view, but they also have all the data they could ever want from online matches. You want to appease both since they are all valid customers, but you only have so much time and need to make some bold moves sometimes and hope they work out.

And even when you intend to fix something another part breaks, since this is a very fragile ecosystem. What may be seen as a weird buff/nerf then removed is sometimes just something getting fixed that was never intended to break open. Your staff might be stretched thin at the time because your part time QA is gone, and so you have less people to actually focus on esoteric game balance, which isn’t exactly priority #1 a lot of times.

I’ve tried to ease up a lot on where I point my critiques after hearing this a lot. It’s a pretty damned if you do damned if you don’t scenario, and no matter what some influential player is going to call you a numnbuts who can’t do their job. So you suck it up and just do what you can.

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That is one way to do it.

I have some trouble with the “revenge” nature of the gauge anyways, and would rather them all just pull from the regular super meter. That way everything is opportunity cost.

You want VT, maybe no EX. Etc…

What @KingHippo42 said. He has said it better than I.

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The biggest issue imo with VT balance is that it is obvious that they don’t take the V-skills into consideration and there is no consistent rules. Like say a character like Ibuki should never ever have a 2 bars VT just because of how good her V-skill and CCs are. Same for Bison and say Menat. Even if they get a kinda weak VT, they will always end up with a busted 2 bars one because they are so effective at building bar anyways. CCs and V-skills should always be taken into.consideration for balancing and i certain they arent.

As for Ryu, when you look at it, in a lot of ways, he maybe better than his S1 version. He havd a better throw oki midscreen. He got ex fireball VTC, his st.LK nerfs got reverted. His fireballs got better, ex tatsu got better, he got a st.LP tick throw, fireballs in VT1 actually got better as well, Donkey kick addressed his meterless combo issue vs crouching and ex DK gave him more damage midscreen.

Honestly, outside of his throw loop (which don’t exist now for anyone) or meterless dp (also universal ), Ryu’s individual tools got better, not worse.

It is just that Capcom didn’t have OP shit VTs back then and it all started with Balrog and Ibuki and the S2 dumbass VTs like Menat and Abigail and ever since, the game became a very heavy VT meta.

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I don’t think V-triggers were ever supposed to be directly balanced against each other. Nor should they be.

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He has a good point though, the later season (especially after AE) Vtrigger are far more powerful than before and thus have a bigger impact.

Hence my comment the other day: “remember when Necalli had the best Vtrigger?

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Pretty much. Like @amrraed said , the game is too VT dependent now, a character without a broken one supported by an useful V-Skill it’s fucked from the beginning.

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I just played isdd and got him angry for leaving after loosing one laggy game (he also said it was laggy).
The guy does not know anything about geography. “Proving” to me that I am lagging cos it does not lag when he plays against UK guys :smile:
He saw that I’ve rematched MDZ Jimmy (guy is living in Germany) and that also proves it as “he has way better connection”.

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Except Karin.

season 1 characters weren’t strong because of VT it was everything else outside of that iirc right?

I think the problem is VT’s now just not being equal in terms of come back power towards the end of the match. A lot of these triggers aren’t bad, but they just aren’t “come back” triggers and that’s what gives you the most bang for your buck right now until/if they change something.

Just realised I make anime sounds when I play fighting games and get hit by Supers and die. Or when it’s down to a pixel and I get thrown and died.

It’s quite embarrassing. Am I the only one?

Sounds like
Gyyyyyaaaaaa!!!
Eeeerrreaaggghhhh!!!

And many others… Sounds that you hear in anime when a character gets hit and dies.

And I don’t even watch much anime…

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Birdie, Cammy, Karin, Bison, and Rashid are all very strong launch characters. So either launch character V-triggers are pretty much on par with later ones for robbery, or V-triggers don’t really need to be balanced against each other.

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S1 was a very CC focused meta. A lot of people didn’t have their meaties and whatnot down yet so the better " control " characters were the best. Like Chun, Nash, Ken, Ryu, Cammy, etc. And all of these control characters had a competent aggression tools as well. When i remember S1 Ken, i mostly remember his air tatsu, ex air tatsu and corner game. Nash was very hard to pin down and his V-reversal and backdash were excellent. Chun had air legs and an insane AA st.LK,etc,etc

Now to be busted without a VT,you need to be very very good at the archetype. @FlyingVe was talking about Karin cause she by far have the best footsies conversions and a very strong neutral game so she doesn’t have to rely on a VT or a V-skill. Another one is Mika, where her offence is so strong that she doesn’t need to rely on a VT. Guile wasn’t a top tier cause of his VTs either.

Now the characters like Ryu, Ken,Chun, Nash and the general S1 victims, they were balanced to be fair at what they do best and they don’t have the VTs to carry them so they end up being a meh characters at best.

M.Bison was quite weak in S1 after week 1 and Rashid was considered low tier. Literally all you had to do vs Bison was block something and V-reversal him into oki.