At this point then, I believe it’s our duty to make these concerns heard (and have Peter actually do his job).
People have been talking too much about characters already for the past few pages which is why the conversation almost got derailed. Hence Preppy having to step in.
…in the next itteration of Street Fighter, I’d really like to see aged-up versions of both **Sakura **(sfa) and **Sean **(sf3)
…Sakura should be (“has been”) too old by now to have the school-uniform/sailor-outfit as anything other than an alt-costume (I like how she looks in her sf4 end cinematic …so, like that but with a proper gi).
…Sean would look cool a little older/more mature and with a “Van-Dyke” goatee, maybe …but keep the yellow gi (tho, I do like some of the elements they came up with for the “White Cobra” concepts …which were abandoned for the current Rufus).
As a goal, they should have an iconic feel to their appearance and animations that would lend to the idea of them being the successors of Ryu and Ken (respectfully) while Ryu and Ken are still present, of course.
I see these two characters as the next-gen shotos and it’d be great to see them with a mix of their past/current move sets with perhaps an evolved move-or-two (…like, maybe, a proper hodoken for both?) …and Sean should get his dragon-smash shoryuken finish back as an EX or part of a super!
Aside, I’d love **Alex **(sf3) to return to the series as soon as possible (I would love it if the patched him into sf4 already!)
SF4 is just a cluster fuck of game design and corporate decision making. It just doesn’t make any sense when you look at it.
They bring back every character from SF2 for nostalgia exploitation. And they bring in even more characters from various SF games even if the story or purpose of the characters make no sense. Why is Bison and Gouken alive? Why are the 3S characters in this tournament? Who cares, now you have Dudley vs Balrog and Hugo and Hawk and Gief in the same game.
They decide to go back to basics but add Focus Attacks which absorb one hit (And more now with Red Focus) but can also be an unblockable. No one seems to know exactly how to use Focus except for building Ultra meter, FADC’ng, and Gen users. Was that the intent of Focus?
They reward players for taking damage with Ultras. Okay, that kind of makes sense but the damage you get off of Ultras are massive and why do they need to be 3 buttons? Why not keep it a simple input? In the Alpha series (At least in A2, I can’t remember in A3) you had 3 levels of supers and to activate a level 3 you had to hit all 3 buttons with the input. This is awkward. CVS2 fixed this by just making all 3 levels concurrent with Light, Medium and Heavy and only certain supers are level 3 only but could be performed with any button.
Plus an incredibly lenient reversal system and 1 frame link combos. Why 1 frame links? No other SF game was built around 1 frame links, CVS2 didn’t have 1 frame links for everything, why does this game need it? What did 1 frame links accomplish? Oh right, it made it easier for guys to bust through with the lenient reversal system. But remember, this is made for newbie players, and of course the easiest thing for newbies to pick up are 1 frame links…
None of these choices make any sense at all and if Ono, Ayano, Dimps, Corporate are behind SF5 then the game is fucked. And all of you guys who play the SF4 series are to blame because you kept coming back to Capcom and asking for more like a battered wife.
Shame on you.
I’m going to say that Focus was meant to be a offensive/defensive mechanic. The reason I believe they gave Focus armor was to give you a reason to use the Focus attack (Make sense, because why are you going to stick out an unsafe move and not get the chance to use it, because a simple jab would stop it- if it had no armor. We, the players, basically change the use of the Focus. The armor help us in our goal of getting close or escaping the opponent. I see Focus as a Guard Cancel Roll, cause you can use the armor point to escape pressure to get away from him or to get in his face.
Ultra are three buttons cause Supers use the one button command. If you wanted your idea to work, they need to get rid of Supers. As for Ultra damage, I’m guessing it’s to suppose to be a high risk/big reward since you can’t just throw the Ultra out (You need to do a little work to get your Ultra to connect- unless your opponent does something stupid). Edit: FYI, Alpha 3 made all levels concurrent with Light, Medium, and Heavy.
The reversal system must of been for the new players to use, cause they would like to hit you in some way (I don’t know what to say here). 1 frame link are for the “pro” players, because I’m guessing “pros” like to execute insane combos and have the ability to do them. But since the reversal system & 1 frame links exist in the same game, it does lead to trouble (But that seems like the case with online only, cause going for 1 frame online is a death wish online with idiots mashing on their moves and what not).
This quote makes me laugh because what makes you think Capcom and friends are going to make terrible mistakes again? Look, I know everyone here lost faith with Capcom but I’m pretty sure they learn their lesson with SFIV, MvC3, & SFxT and they must heard our feedback about SFIV as a whole. Also, don’t blame SFIV players for shit, because we never ask for a lenient reversal system, Ultras, Focus attacks, and all the silly shit that everyone is complaining about. As flaw and silly this game is, we still enjoy playing it and it’s a better game than Capcom Fighting Evolution (There’s a reason why no one plays that).
It’s not like Super Turbo and Alpha 3 were not by definition “broken” and people still play the shit out of them,
I agree SF4 has some flaws but it’s nowhere near as terrible as people here make it out to be.
Inputting a shoryuken is still fun and it has Ken and Ryu. Those 2 reasons are enough for me to like the game.
The 1 problem I have with the game is how it almost plays itself through the huge variety of option selects that the input leniency system allows and how 1 frame links coupled with with autoblock, lots of shit not being true blockstrings for whatever reason and mashing reversals leads to putting a huge burden on the attacker who has to have his shit down 100 percent or else gets punished for it (ok that’s more than 1 thing).
I’d wish SF5 to encourage offensive playstyles other than the vortex game that was so prominent during ae and not have a parry system which I really dislike because it basically kills the fireball game and that was always something that made SF special back when it came out.
1: I suggested that they could have changed the input. Like say Ryu’s QCFx2 LP for Fireball super could have been QCBx2 LP for Ultra. Or simply map it to the Fierce buttons. Done.
2: No other SF game was built around 1 frame links. End of story. They existed of course, but the entire combo system did not revolve around it.
3: They have a pretty shit track record for fighting games. I think that say’s it all. And you SF4 players are part of the problem because you bought the games and supported Capcom. Didn’t like how they played? Then don’t buy them. They’re not going to listen “Blank and Blank reasons are why the game sucks. Please change it.” Because they don’t give a fuck about you. Vote with your wallet. Want to play the game but don’t want to pay for it? Torrent that shit. Fuck 'em.
Yes, so much this! Many people want to see Street Fighter become pure herp derp rushdown. The best part about SF is the variety between long-distance and short-distance combat. I’d like to see SF5 balance those archetypes fairly and make every type strong. SF4 has greatly favored rushdown and mix-up characters over zoners, I want to see the type of balance that ST achieved where every single type was great.
I personally feel like its a huge uphill battle when I use Gouken, Dee-Jay, or Ryu against a majority of the cast. Feels like I get punished for attempting to play smart defense. SF5 should reward offense properly but also encourage smart defense.
Also, the SF4 style of throw teching needs to go. Tech’ed throws should still do damage but at a very reduced rate. And they shouldn’t reset space like they do, they should give a slight momentum/spacing advantage to the guy on offense. Finally, if focus attacks are still around, level 1 on counter-hit should NOT cause a crumple. Would really limit the amount of random herp derp focus charging that goes on. I’d rather see more poking and whiffing as opposed to whiff charging of a pseudo-parry.
Not a bad idea, but I highly doubt they will need to do this since I’m sure they’re going drop having an Ultra and Super in the next game.
I know that, but I was giving a reason on why Capcom added them.
See that bold part there, you can apply that to any other company that has made FGs. Look, us playing and buying the updates doesn’t mean we wanted the next SF to play like and/or be similar to IV. Honestly, if they don’t listen to us, then they are sure as hell not going to our money then.
That’s a pointless, frivolous change that’s just doing it for the sake of doing it, unless you want to fundamentally change how the characters are played; at that point just make new characters.
It undermines decades of solid movesets for no reason. Ryu and Ken are the beginner characters because they’re the face of Street Fighter. They’re the two guys that everyone is gonna know, and they have simple moves, so changing the way they play to a method that more experienced players are used to would alienate any newcomers.
Capcom actually has a pretty stellar record for fighting games if you consider games 2001 and before. However those guys who developed those games are long gone.
As far as DPs being just as fun as ever in SF4, I must disagree. Though some can ultra off a connected DP, generally the hitboxes are worse and there are less invincibility frames leading it to be stuffed in some cases.
SF4’s problems aren’t with balance…being broken. Yeah the balance in A3 or ST is worse…but the difference is characters are in general a lot stronger, walkspeeds much faster, people are having so much fun balance and this or that character being top tier is mostly an after thought. I don’t know if it 09er mentality or whatever, but the fanbase is a big reason SF4 isn’t better. Focus and Ultra were poor ideas IMO, but the fanbase complains about every little thing that is uncomfortable to them so characters have progressively gotten weaker from Vanilla to now (overall).
The main problem with SF4 throw techs is that you can bake them into damn near anything. One reason the huge amount of setplay and OS magic is necessary is not because SF4 has a huge amount of defensive mechanisms but because those defensive mechanisms are stackable. And then you often need different counters for different levels of stacked defense.
I’m not saying SF4 series is on par with SF The Movie The Game or Capcom Fighting Jam levels of bad, but it’s still not great. There’s a chance that the next game could be accidentally good like MVC2 but considering all the choices Capcom have made it really doesn’t look good.
I think you’re just pulling things out of your ass now. Compared to say, SNKP, Arksys, and Namco? You’re really going to compare Capcom to those guys? Really? Really?
SNKP has had a pretty decent track record: You have KOFXI, Samurai Shodown 6, Neo Geo Battle Colleseum, the KOF UM’s, and KOF 12 and 13. And I’m counting all of them because they were developed in house under the reformed SNKP. KOF 12/13 may have had some contractors for coding though. And out of those you have one legitimately bad game (KOF12) and one game that was well received but is acknowledged as not being true to KOF.
Akrsys has the Blazblue series, Persona Arena, and Guilty Gear. All of which are well received. XRD has got a lot of praise from diehards. I don’t play Anime fighters so I can’t say too much.
Namco has done well with SC5 and the Tekkens (aside from the F2P Revolution).
So, totally bizarre straw-man argument from you.
Maybe I should of explain myself better. What I was getting at was that every company has had their fair share of bad games. They make a few games then bam, some bad ones come out and then some more good ones come out. So, who knows if the next SF or Capcom FG game will be good after these “bad” apples (But what’s the point, everyone here is dead set on the idea that Capcom will never do anything good again). shrug
My gripe is that its very easy to get in. You can often bypass the space between where a poke or fireball is at maximum effectiveness quite easily. HOWEVER, once you get in and are either performing a block string or on the receiving end of one, it becomes really hard to make something of it.
Are you trying to set a throw up? Deal with a tech or cr. jab mashing. Are you keeping pressure on? Watch out for DP into FADC mashing which can reverse momentum. Did you get a knockdown? Go guess whether he’ll block, focus, backdash, ultra, or something else.
Now that I’ve played the game for a while I can really appreciate how defensive it is in general. I used to have a much different perception of it. I can see why option selects and 50/50 setups are so necessary in order to create damage.
Haven’t we already established that it wasn’t parries that killed fireballs in SFIII/3S.
Weak fireballs overall killed the fireball game in SFIII/3S. Even if you took out parries in that game, the fireball game would still be weak because of how slow, small and undamaging fireballs are in those games.
People who ask this have no idea about how the industry works and how hard it is to get 2D sprites done these days.
SNK-P almost bankrupt themselves doing sprites for XII/XIII. Arc is only able to do sprites because they still have sprite artists. Both are transitioning away from sprites.
Lab Zero is a rare exception and they’re only able to do it through massive amounts of outsourcing and what basically amounts to volunteer work.
about fireballs, It would be pretty crazy to see a shoto that beans his fireballs at pitcher speeds.
Only if we get a grappler that’s able to grab from fullscreen.
Then you should already know why what you want will never happen. Not when they a large library of existing animations that they can easily just add on to updated character models, just like what 3D fighters have been doing for years now.
2D sprites are nice to look at but they’re very restrictive in terms of what can be done with them. 3D models are much more versatile. I recall the main reason Guilty Gear Xrd switched to 3D characters was because the arcade version was 720p and the consoles were 1080p, meaning they needed art that could scale without looking like shit.