I was just going by what I’ve seen in footage. Has the actual walk speed been quantified somewhere?
V.Akuma vs V.Sagat was 6:4 last I played Vanilla. Akuma > Sagat > Ryu > Akuma > etc. Call it 5:5 if you want, it’s just opinion.
Coward copter…meh. Now that Ken can’t be safejumped, Ultra Ken has everything he needs to keep up. He can still OS vs teleports, etc. Dealing with V.Akuma coward copter will be a pain, but such is nature of the beast.
Does anyone have the most recent tier list of all the versions before they got replaced?
I’d like to compare the top 5 of all the versions and stack them up against each other. That would probably give us the best estimate on what the tier list would like in remix.
i have my doubts that things like the vanilla unblockable ultras are in the game; combofiend was pretty vague and my suspicion is that engine tweaks for remix edition will remove them as a side effect.
ultimately certain characters will just act as tournament gatekeepers:
vanilla sagat
vanilla zangief
vanilla blanka
vanilla seth
vanilla akuma
vanilla rufus
ae yun
ae yang
ae fei (death combo = rose + makoto + etc. will never win in long sets)
will have absurd blowout matchups against the majority of the rest of the cast (all versions), even if they themselves have lopsided disadvantages elsewhere.
The characters who lose the most are characters that already had a low chance of actually competing well so it’s big loss.
He said majority of the cast. In fact right now the majority of the cast have a chance of winning majors.
zangief (any version) will never beat vanilla sagat
makoto (any version) will never beat vanilla sagat or vanilla akuma
guy (any version) will never beat vanilla gief
abel (any version) will never beat vanilla akuma or vanilla gief
honda (any version) will never beat super guile
dhalsim (any version) will never beat ae yun
gouken (any version) will never beat ae yun
do you see where this is going
hey. you know that ratio tournament thing ultrachen was talking about sounds pretty sweet for this tho
i figure tiers for ES should end up looking something like this:
vanilla top
ae top
super top
2012 top
vanilla mid
ultra top
ae mid
super mid
vanilla low
2012 mid/ultra mid
ae/super/2012/ultra low
vanilla mid tiers better than ultra top tier= ES is an offline only separate mode exclusive to consoles. hopefully you wont notice the results of capcoms “rebalancing”
No they don’t.
The majority of the cast have a chance of placing top 8 but in terms of actually winning majors consistently they don’t. Granted I’m not saying remix won’t have lopsided matches but it’s against characters that are shitty as it stands…it ain’t like Dan,hawk,DJ,Dudley or guy will be winning evo anytime soon so what’s the big deal if they aren’t viable in remix.
actually they do. if the usual top 8 players pick anyone but the bottom 10 in 2012 they have a legit shot at winning. like how good do you think rufus or gief really is in this game? chun? vega? momochi had cody in GF last year
At best those characters are counter-picks that only win due to unfamiliarity. It’s a gimmick at best not something consistent enough that would make top players actually stick with these characters all the way from start to finish. If tournaments were character locked the so called diversity would be completely nullified save for some brave souls with character loyalty.
At any rate the basic point I’m making is that the overall tournament winning characters won’t be any less diverse in remix then it is now.
The only thing that’s peaked my interest about ES is how the AE Twins will fare against the vanilla characters. Everyone else is going to get decimated.
Vanilla mid tier better than Ultra tops? I dunno about that one.
the only counter pick i listed was chun. the rest of those characters are players mains.
rufus-EG
gief-snake eyez
vega-zeus
cody-momochi at that time
those arent great characters. cody might be bottom 10. rufus is in the top half. gief is worse than rufus. vega? aside from cammy and akuma, none of the characters you see consistently winning are really top 10. how can you ignore how diverse the game is at this point?
Until evo is own by vega or someone like rose or juri then I’ll concede its a very diverse and balanced game.
Like look I’m not saying ultra won’t be more balanced then remix but rather my point is that in terms of who’s winning evo quality events, the character diversity won’t really change.
probably because the game doesn’t sound diverse when everyone keeps saying it’s an era of setplay with “just do it” engraved into everyone’s brain
srk just doesn’t know what it actually wants (me, i’d like it if throws/ultras couldn’t be dwu)
Who was mid in Vanilla again? I assume guys like Abel, Fei, Honda, or Sakura might be on that list. If so do you guys think they really beat the hypothetical Ultra top tiers like Ken, Mak, Evil Ryu, or Yang?
V.Sagat and V. Ryu will be the bouncers for the top tier clubhouse. V. Gouki, V. Seth and V. Viper will be chillin inside laughing at the lower class. The AE twins will play on the lawn. Sometimes they try to play with the chars from the other editions, but then V.Gen gets bent outta shape. Starts droning on about not associating with weaklings and everyone is a big fool.
vanilla mid was like abel, bison, rog, gief, chun, ken, cammy, gen, pre-patch fei.
i dont mean they all would beat ultras theory top match for match, but they would be stronger characters overall.
Thankfully my main was viable in all versions, and will most likely be viable in Ultra. Still, i can’t decide between using Vanilla or AE Viper. Probably Vanilla though, Ultra 2 was never good anyway, i used that @ EVO and got wrecked hard.