SF4 Remix Edition Tier List

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

Well obviously a lot of details are still unknown about how this mode will work out but assuming its a fairly straight forward concept I thought it would be interesting to tier the various versions into a single definitive tier list. At the same time it would be interesting to speculate on who would be the dominate versions and which characters would ultimately be on top.

I’ll start first with who I think will be the top characters in this game.

1: SF4 Akuma
2: SF4 Sagat
3: AE Yun
4: Super Cammy
5: SF4 Rufus

2

AE2012 Cammy > Super Cammy.

TKCS is nice but her AE2012 damage is WAY better, her frame traps are better, and her moves are better overall. All Super Cammy has is TKCS over AE2012 Cammy. AE2012 Cammy gained the combos that make her scary. Not even just the harder extended combos, real basic shit.

crMP - crMK
crLK - crLP - crMP
crMP - crHP
closeHP - crHP
Far LP - crMK
ect ect.

She gained double the frame advantage on a bunch of normals.

3

I thought super Cammy had the same tools but just with the TKCS…imagine if she had both lol.

Alright well a slight revision, in place of Cammy I’d put super guile in that case.

4

AE Yang, AE Fei Long, Vanilla Seth, Super Guile

5

SF4 Seth
Super Fei Long
SF4 Zangief
AE 2012 Cammy
Super Honda
AE Yang
SF4 Ryu

6

Another thing I want to discuss is the number of viable characters this mode will realistically have. Now granted I’m not a expert on all the match-ups but from what I know I think the following characters are all characters which can realistically hold their own and win majors.

SF4 Ryu,Serh,Sagat,Gief,Rog,Rufua,Akuma,Viper,Blanka

Super chun,guile,honda

AE fei,yun,Cammy, adon

2012 cammy

7

AE or Ultra Mak better be on these lists somewhere.

8

I think the ultra characters would probably have the tools to deal with vanilla seth.

9

AE Yang
V. Rufus
V. Balrog
V. Zangief (heavily counter-picked, however)

Just some characters that weren’t mentioned as much as the usual suspects.

10

I see people talk about Vanilla Balrog all of the time like he was so much better than he is now. Can someone explain to me why?

The only thing that has been lost since Vanilla for balrog AFAIK:
Headbutt damage nerf by 20 on MP/HP and 30 on LP + more recovery (on whiff only)
10 damage off forward/back throw
Ultra damage reduced by 28
far LP now whiffs on all crouchers instead of just most crouching opponents.

Ultra Balrog gains over Vanilla:
LP Dash straight now -1F on hit instead of -2F
LP / MP overhead smash are faster / safer / less damaging. Still the same on HP so no loss just more options. [Pushback was reduced in AE2012 making it easier to link out of]
TAPs charge faster
Ultra - Now can get a straight punch on last hit (good for chip outs as the upper cut is more likely to whiff at certain ranges.)
DWU helps him a bit
close MP - more frame advantage over Vanilla balrog and forces stand. Also is special cancelable (not a big deal) [added in AE]
W Ultra might make U2 usable.
closeHP - hitbox buffed [added in AE 2012]

I understand why Balrog was good in terms of meta game in Vanilla but as a character he wasn’t much different than he is now AFAIK.

Hell, USF4 Cody is losing more damage on his ultra than Balrog did on his ultra going from Vanilla to Super
506 reduced to 466 for U2 in USF4 (40 damage lost)

11

Balrog also had 1100 health in vanilla, instead 1050.

I’m not gonna compare him with his Ultra version, since we don’t even know for sure what changes will stick, but between vanilla/Super/AE/v.2012, I think vanilla Balrog was the best. 20 more dmg for his headbutts is pretty big, since it affects his bnbs. And 10 for throws are also good, considering how much Balrog relies on throws. Headbutt recovery means he cannot uses to pass through fireballs (at least not as easily). Nothing ground breaking, he just did what he does better.

12

SS-vSagat, vAkuma, vSeth
S-vRufus, aeYun, vRyu, aeYang, s/aeFei, s/2012Cammy, vViper
A-s/uGuile, vRog, ae/uMak
B-vGief, vBlanka, v/2012Gen, v/sBison, 2012Sak, 2012Ibuki, aeKen, sAbel, sAdon, s/vHonda, sChun
C-sRose, sSim, uOni, uE.ryu, uJuri, sVega
D-vElf
E-uDudley, uGouken, uGuy, uHakan
F-2012Cody, uDeeJay, uHawk, uDan

i think everyone down to A tier would be legit threatening, top 8 material. B tier would be competitive, but get slaughtered by multiple S tiers. C tier and lower can pack it up.

13

A couple of things regarding V. Sagat: in vanilla Akuma, Ryu, Seth and Dhalsim gave him trouble (Sim is listed as 5-5 in all lists).

What we forget, since then metagame has developed a lot, some characters were discovered, other new characters came in.

  • Back then, vortex was in it’s infancy - how will V. sagat face V. Akuma/Seth with their vortex/setup up to date ?
  • V. Sagat vs V.2012 Cammy
  • V. Sagat vs AE Fei Long - back in the day Fei was considered bad and it was undiscovered
  • I’m also curious how V. Sagat deals with V. Viper
  • I’m questioning V. Sagat winning against V. Abel - aside Sagat’s dmg, everything that makes Abel a bad match for gat was still there, but, like Fei Long, Abel was considered a bad character back then.
  • What about Ken ? Now can is considered pretty bad for Sagat. Again, in vanilla vortex was in it’s infancy
  • Finally, Juri and Dudley, matches considered very bad for gat only came since Super.

Basically, I think we are writing off many characters a little too easy

14

Anyway, who I think would be viable in ES:

  • from Vanila: Sagat; Viper; Akuma; Seth; Rufus; Ryu; Zangief; Abel; Balrog; Chun Li; Honda; Blanka; Bison.
  • from Super: Guile; Dhalsim; maybe Rose
  • from AE: Yun; Yang; Fei Long; Makoto;
  • from v.2012: Cammy; Sakura; Ibuki; Adon;

Characters that might have a chance: V. Gouken(? not sure); Ken (AE ?); Gen (V./v.2012); Oni, Evil Ryu (both v.2012); Hakan v.2012 ?

Characters in deep doo doo: Dan, Hawk; Dudley; Dee Jay; Cody, Guy; Juri; Fuerte; Vega. But even some of them might improve in Ultra.

15

Tiger knee loops far lk and safer knee in general change the way sagat could play his matches.

He didn’t have the 1/4 screen dead zone in front of him that he has now.

16

Does anyone know if pre-ultra characters will be given Ultra mechanics like red focus, DWU, and Ultra W to use?

17

Ryu did not beat Sagat in Vanilla.

Daigo listed the match as 6:4, his only bad matchup in the Arcade version.

18

wow. ok. so knock him off the list. i thought it was even. v sagat was a beast

19

I think like it was stated before he basically just does what he does now except better.

I also have to wonder about SF4 gen, is he better then 2012 gen?

20

Vanilla Ryu is underestimated IMO, I put him right up there along with Vanilla Akuma and Vanilla Sagat as the best 3 in that version.

He had insane damage output with fierce DP FADC U1 because FADC combos didn’t scale the damage so much and both DP and U1 had more damage lol. He also had trade > U1 for days, Godlike cr.mk, coward copter, crazy good fireball/super trap…etc

I’d love to see what Bonchan can do with Vanilla Sagat, Infiltration with Vanilla Akuma and Daigo with Vanilla Ryu today!