Would vanilla ryu lose to 2012 Cammy?
i dunno. its kind of a toss up to me. he was more damaging in vanilla, but he was also pretty straight forward as well. crane style was more useless than it is now, and he had less footsie options. however st.mk hit like half screen away, and his mantis jump arc was like deejays knee shot.
the 2012 version of gen is more well rounded as a character and has more utility. so vanilla gen may have had stronger tools, but there were a lot less tools to use
Hard to say, can Vanilla Ryu out damage 2012 Cammy?
It will be interesting to see which version of gen becomes the dominate one. I see some exciting potential for certain matches in this version but I also think we will have a relatively large number of characters be completely unusable. The following are characters that I feel are best left ignored on the character select screen.
Hawk,Dan,DJ,rose,Cody,guy,Dudley,hakon,furte,ken,gouken,vega,juri,evil ryu,oni.
Everyone else I think will be viable to various degrees so ultimately it won’t be that terrible unbalanced.
I don’t get why folks don’t have any faith in U/E Ryu. He’s going to hit like a truck off midrange pokes with meter, has two useful Ultras, and will have strong defense with DWU and Red Focus. Hell, he doesn’t even really have his low health weakness anymore sittin on 950.
The problem is that the top tiers in remix will all have very powerful tools so evil ryu is playing with legitimate top tiers who have strong tools. Against vanilla sagat I don’t see evil ryu putting much of a fight…although I will admit the meta game has evolved a lot since vanilla.
E.Ryu relies too much on hard knockdowns and followup in order to do significant damage, he generally needs meter to get anything going outside of oki. To be honest, All Characters Edition is probably the only way E.Ryu can be strong in the metagame.
Ryu does more damage but has the same gameplan. Cammy can no longer use unblockables on him, but otherwise still can dizzy in two combos and still has the best special move in the game. Sounds more even but still in Cammy’s favor, in theory.
While talking about unblockables, knowing which characters can take advantage of them matters. If a B tier character has some bad matchups against the top tiers, but has practical true unblockables or one-frame-blockables against all of them, that might spell out viability right there.
I don’t think Ultra Evil Ryu is among the top 10 in a everybody edition, but he has a fighting chance. He’s getting a better sweep, target combo, more health, and a better hop kick to blow up lows. He would have to work harder but he’s a good enough character to get the job done. As a Evil Ryu player, I’m honestly more scared of AE Yun/Yang and Vanilla Akuma. V-Sagat would still have a advantage against him, but I think he fights Sagat a little better than he does the other 3 I mentioned.
Ultra ken is going to be way more useful than ae ken, the only bad thing ultra ken has is his dp fadc (which doesn’t matter). his footsies, ultras, and damage are all better.
I think another point people should remember is that the top tiers in most of the games were only top because the cast in relation to them was weak. They weren’t true top tiers in the sense of 3s chun or A3 V-ism akuma were so I think the interaction between top/mid characters in remix won’t be as 1-sided as people are saying.
People are rating all versions of Blanka too high, and I don’t know if Vanilla Blanka is even the best version of Blanka. The hop buff in super made most of his setups possible, and the changes to lp ball made his meter building/ability to fight sim better and also improved his setup game massively.
Vanilla Blanka has u1 damage/anti air, better cowards crouch(can cancel it while maintaining charge), and thats it. it’s matchup dependent on who is better. If I was playing Blanka in this I’d use Vanilla, Super, 2012, and Ultra Blankas probably depending on matchup. I like AE2012+Super Blanka better than Ultra Blanka vs. shotos, but Vanilla Blanka is the shit vs. shotos. Ultra Blanka would be in matchups you want knockdown EX upball+don’t care about cr.mk changes but want the benefit of better focus, so mostly characters that punish non knockdown ex upball on hit easily. Then play Vanilla vs. Hawk+shotos+gief, and Super for most everyone else.
The best version of Blanka isn’t better than the best version of 20 other characters though, hell I don’t even know if I would say 10. I think most characters have 1 if not 2+ better versions over him easily. Multiple characters will have 5 versions better than any of his versions.
@darktown Ultra Ken doesn’t have coward copter either. I’d see AE Ken, Ultra Ken, and Super Ken all getting run depending on matchup.
V.Sagat would ONLY lose to V.Characters and probably Juri.
lol Adon and Dudley.
PFFFFFFFT HAHAHA!!!
Tiger Knee to the face
If you had to say in terms of overall quality which blanka is the best?
As I said. If your character wasn’t in Vanilla and isn’t Yun/Yang then there is very little for you in this. Most super-ultra changes have been pretty conservative, especially for the characters added in super.
Super / AE characters all have a “best” version or are hoping to have one in Ultra.
Adon - Super / 2012 (depends on if you want a strong character on offense or one who is nearly impossible to safe jump.)
THawk - Ultra
Deejay - Ultra
Guy - Ultra
Cody - Utra (If the EX Criminal Upper throw invincibility removal and U2 damage nerf stick then there may be one or two MUs he uses AE2012 like Abel.)
Dudley - Ultra
Oni - Ultra
Evil Ryu - Ultra
Hakan - Ultra
Juri - Ultra
Makoto - AE or Ultra
Ibuki - AE2012
Sagat - Vanilla
Ryu - Vanilla or Ultra
Ken - Vanilla / AE / Ultra all viable
Cammy - AE2012 though some players will likely pick Vanilla or Super for the TKCS.
Sakura - AE2012
Blanka - Varies
Chun - Vanilla or Ultra
Balrog - Vanilla or Ultra
Honda - Varies. Vanilla / Super / Ultra
Fei - Vanilla or AE
Yun - AE
Yang - AE
Dan - Ultra
Guile - Vanilla / Super / Ultra all have uses
Gen - Vanilla or AE2012
Zangief - Vanilla / Super / AE2012 / Ultra all have varied usefulness
Viper - Vanilla / AE / Ultra
Rufus - Vanilla
El Fuerte - Vanilla or Ultra (Ultra is overall stronger, Vanilla has better RSF loops and more damaging ultra)
Vega - Super or Ultra
Rose - Vanilla / AE / Ultra all have varied reasons to be used (Damage / Ultra 2 / Damage + DWU)
Bison - Vanilla / Super / Ultra (all have varied usefulness) Vanilla = Damage. Super = Utility (esp U2). Ultra = a mix of utility and extended combo damage
Abel - Vanilla / Super / Ultra (all have varied usefulness) Vanilla = Damage. Super = U2 is borked. Ultra = clsHP buffs
Gouken - Vanilla or Ultra
Akuma - Vanilla
Seth - Vanilla or AE2012
hk tatsu is a good enough escape for some matchups (there are other characters without escape options anyways). i feel delayed wakeup is too good to ignore and can compensate for mixups midscreen. I just feel the two minor cons don’t outweigh the huge buffs Ken’s gained access too. I can see why some would use ae ken for a few matchups, but ultra seems like the definitive version so far.
I think Vanilla Ken was the worst version of Ken. His damage was good but he was susceptible to safe jumps which sucked a lot.
and yes even with the nerfs to Ken in Ultra the sizeable buffs heavily outweigh them
This could mean ultra ken could be a good fight against vanilla ryu.
The match was 6-4 ryu in vanilla so a improved men should make it more equal.
Super Fuerte U2 did retard damage if I recall didn’t it?
Didn’t say he was the best version. However vanilla is a viable option that has strengths that other versions don’t have. There ARE reasons to go for Vanilla whereas most of the cast there isn’t even one reason to go for any version other than version X. Vanilla Ken has the best comeback factor out of all versions, his ultra/super/exsrk/tatsus did more damage and his air tatsus had the overhead properties and he had coward copter still. Also his crMK was much better in Vanilla, it did 70 damage and had 4F startup 4F active 14F recovery instead of 4/2/16 like it does in AE/2012/Ultra.
His comeback factor due to higher damage BnBs and ultra give a decent reason to play him. He isn’t as consistent though for sure.
Same deal as Super Cammy vs AE2012 Cammy. AE2012 is pretty clearly superior but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t at least a reason to play Super. AE2012 / Ultra Gouken is better overall than Vanilla Gouken but Vanilla gouken has better fireball damage and some of his pokes hurt more. He has less options though, for example his close MP doesn’t combo to fireball at all in Vanilla. His combos are mostly worse but his comeback factor is a bit better with backthrow not having scaling and his fireballs doing more allowing slightly higher damage corner only combos.
FJ HP - clsHK - HK Tatsu (or EX SRK) did 402 damage 600stun in Vanilla
Level 2 focus - clsHK - HK Tatsu = 346 damage 485stun in Vanilla
FJ HP - clsHK - HK Tatsu = 354 damage 568 stun in AE2012
level 2 focus - clsHK - HK Tatsu = 304 damage 457stun in AE2012
Yeah it was somewhere around 500 IIRC