Or anything with invincibility frames can get you
Hm…I didn’t think of that. Any examples? It’s gotta be invincible on start up or at least by the 3rd frame right?
Shoryuken.
Oh duh…well that’s good to know. All this time I had been thinking I was just missing my link
what do people do against good claw players
because i’ve only played two (jozhear a while back and a person i just ran into today in ranked) and they straight up demolish me. latter has told me that i should try jumping more but every time i did that i got air scooped. maybe i’m not jumping at the right times?
Off the top of my head you can try to:
Do aerial attacks preemptively to beat the opponent’s jumping attack.
Focus Attack more, dashing forward when connecting to threaten with a DP/SPD/Tanden mixup.
FADC fireballs from mid range and react accordingly to what the opponent does (beware of his ultras).
UmeSRK a poke.
Tanden from mid range.
Have Super.
Momentum is so important in this match up. And you can’t just think “one SPD and Vega’s done” because Vega’s backflip is a pretty good escape from many OSs. The best OS Seth has in this match is probably safe jump OS forward jump (yes you can OS a forward jump, it just negates your safe jump if they use an invincible reversal). But OS forward jump is probably a better bet than OS SRK, especially if your opponent is seasoned enough to acknowledge your safe jump timing.
What I think is most critical when fighting Vega is to work his claw off with light chain pressure. Vega wants to zone Seth out and force bad guesses. At worst though, the Vega you’re playing knows how to kara throw, and occasionally goes for instant overhead j.HP to mix you up. If you’re not cornered, feel free to teleport out of a defensive position. Challenging Vega’s reactions is more important than showing him you know how to block and throw tech. Because if he can’t react with EX Izuna, then he might not be able to react to your next line of offense.
Pre-AE Super, I used to go with U2 because I’d actually try to AA with it (whether he’s neutral/back jumping away from pressure, or jumping at you), but Capcom gave all of Vega’s EX wall dives projectile invincibility or something, allowing him to just pass on through it. So now I feel like it’s U1 or nothing, which makes me feel kind of cheap because it shuts down any missed wall dive, or even counters Izuna drop. I don’t know if Vega can still pass through U2 in 2012, but U1 is undoubtedly the better pick.
Yea from my perspective getting jumped on a lot is more scary than SPD / SRK mix up. those are situational in this MU
some Seth players bitch at me because I flip a lot… but if you don’t punish the flips properly theres no reason not to use them
dude above is correct in saying that jump forward OS is strong. it will certainly punish most flip attempts and i can’t evade it if i’ve made my move already
Generally I have to find a way to get under you and still not get mixed up or try to succesfuly air to air you which can be subverted by your j. mp, and let’s be honest, it’s hard to survive while trying to block a jump in and even harder to recognize an empty jump and punish it succesfully. it’s strongly in your favour to just take to the air.
if you play footsies though Vega will kill you. i guess that makes sense to everyone
I dont’ know what you’re saying Metroxylon about Vega having projectile invincible wall dives, there’s just a sort of property where if seth’s vortex for U2 is activated while i’m still in the air i can sort of steer out of the vaccuum range and get away safely. But for the record i have only projectile invincibility on EX SHC And AFAIK your U2 isn’t a projectile anyways. last I checked it isn’t, cause if it is I can MAYBE use EX RCF to roll through meaty ones Poongko style but i doubt it.
at any rate PPP flip also doesn’t have enough invincibility to avoid ultra 2.
Either one is a good choice but personally I would recommend U1 because not being able to wall dive when i’m in the corner and need out safely is pretty sketchy.
One more piece of advice, in my honest opinion this matchup is even, possibly advantage Vega - i don’t consider Seth’s pressure greater than some other characters, but the fact is his mixup is the most versatile and he can certainly force you to make mistakes and get decent damage punishes… but there’s a mixup i do where if I connect with EX FBA, then dash, crouch, and jump, it’s extremely ambiguous cross up j-fierce that can totally rape seth only for you getting hit once, it also avoids SRK, i can punish teleport with EX FBA, it’s a safe jump so your ultras won’t work, i don’t think an EX SPD would catch it, etc… it’s bad and like i said if i hit you with ONE ex fba that can mean the game for you.
it’s funny cause vega isn’t that kind of character… but all of a sudden he gets a mixup on seth that is like on seth’s level hahaha, funny how matchups work that way sometimes
One time in AE2011 I had a session with my Vega-playing friend EternalBlaze, and I’m pretty sure I tried to counter EX FBA with U2. I don’t know if he went to his side of the screen, or if it was after I blocked the rising part, (if that would make any difference) but he went through it to the free win side of the ultra.
There are definitely projectile-interacting properties to U2. Also in AE2011 a similar thing happened with me vs some online Rose player who pulled out the orbs at full screen then tried to jump at me. My ultra ate her orbs, but didn’t hit her. The orbs actually made it so she safely landed and could block the rest of my ultra, plus got the “punish”. Couldn’t help but call bullshit on that since I would’ve been better off with just an SRK. Frustrating to see Capcom make things behave counter-intuitively at times… I should find out of it still works like that…
Also note: Balrog’s U1 goes through Seth’s U2 if Seth inputted first. Ken’s U2 is a stalemate to Seth’s U2. Adon’s U1 goes through Seth’s U2.
And I guess since Jozhear validated my suggestion to OS Jump, I suspect that OS forward dash is just as good (if not better?). Not like I wouldn’t dash in after a jump attack anyway 
U2 is just a big projectile (The tornado) with a hit state state suction beneath it. So it’s bassicaly, a cyclone with an EX Tanden attached to it.
Seth - Zangief is 5-5, Seth’s favor. Believe it.
Can you go more in depth with this?
Zangief still has no answer to sonic boom from 2/3rd screen. And no safe jump off EX Green hand means no option selects for your teleports.
EX SRK cannot be caught by U2, it’s too invincible.
Dashing after booms to uppercut is legitimate against Gief.
Keeping a semi-patient Seth in the corner without U2 is next to impossible. He can’t approach because you can threaten walljump. It’s really hard for him to headbutt a walljump if you vary the timings and do an empty jump.
Mean why he’d think it isn’t 6-4. Particularly for those reasons…seems like Seth just controls the pace of the match completely.
Just play Snake Eyes, and you all will understand. It feels like to zone zangief, a good gief, takes too many risks to do.
Yeah I have no idea why he says it’s even. But rather than argue about matchup numbers, I wanted to just give some input on the matchup.
zoning is a funny concept. You can zone zangief without giving him much breathing room, or zone him more passively, in order to see if he’ll take bait etc… for bigger punishes. but yeah if you stick to just a zone game as Seth, you’re under-utilizing his design. And when Gief throws out heavies, that’s a great time to focus dash in and SPD, or possibly go for crumple.
The risk:reward is so retarded with Viper. I hate this match up so god damn much. Truly fucking stupid. Like any half decent Viper will make you second guess yourself until you have Ultra stocked so you can at least back up strings with an OS. And then a good Viper will make you respect her wake up way too much because it’s one wrong attempt, you’re down 70% and on the ground. Then you have to somehow keep Viper from getting any momentum. Which is hard as fuck because she is just waiting to get that one read while mind fucking you so hard with Seismo chains and feints of all sorts. Like the only good place to be for Seth is completely full screen.
I tried to figure out anti-Viper tech. But the only thing I could find out is SPD ~ dash forward ~ Tanden. I couldn’t figure out how to meaty her - seems like all my normals are either too big or don’t recover fast enough. Anti-airing her is really hard. cst.HP doesn’t win cleanly half the time and the way she changes her trajectory really fucks with me. Thunder Knuckle can be whiffed punished but the feints make this seem really unrealistic unless I’m drinking Red Bull. I get hit by any normal she throws out - which is weird, because Viper’s normals suck, but they seem to work well against Seth - I have to respect the pressure that Thunder Knuckle throws me for. Then this big ass hit box of mine makes those burn kicks really hard to block, which is really lame in the corner because I end up eating Ultra if I don’t guess right.
Kiku, you know like every character. Give me a hand please. Before I end up subbing Zangief.
I hardly ever play Viper, take everything I say w/ a grain of salt.
Thunder knuckle on block is minus so you can s.lk afterwards for ‘free’ I think. Unless she like ultras. EX Seismo is too slow, only option fast enough is hp TK fadc ultra and that’s only in the corner.
Jump back mp is a good AA, j.hp probably is good too.
She’s easy to safe jump OS I believe, I haven’t tested against her backdash but I would try lp/mp dp and EX legs. I know Ryu’s jab uppercut beats everything Viper can do on wakeup.
Jab uppercut helps a LOT against some of her shit but I don’t play against any good Vipers recently so I don’t know how reliable that is - if she can bait it. I think it beats like everything though if you throw it out early enough.
You can’t safe meaty Viper (besides tanden at the right spacing), you can only safe jump her. But her only reversals that can catch you don’t lead to much (hp TK and EX BK).
Don’t get hit by burning kick -> ultra in the corner on wakeup. If you have to get hit by a burning kick that knocks you out of the corner, oh well.
Seismos are retarded, I don’t have any top secret tech besides trying to punish them like a normal fireball and hoping it wasn’t a feint. You CAN ultra them.
Focus absorb xx forward dash -> SPD will get her to stop doing random low altitude burning kicks. Most of my problems in life can be solved by SPD’ing someone.
cr.hk helps avoid some burning kicks if you need a quick and dirty answer.
Her anti-air is only mediocre without ultra, remember that Seth is retarded.
If she is doing BK on wakeup you should start doing cl.lk or cl.mp meaties. It will stuff it and give you a reset situation.
Can OS EX Legs her off a safe jump but she can do HP Knuckle feint and blow it up…found this out the hard way against Gridman (except it was EX Seismo back during AE, but I imagine the same concept would work.) I was having some success with jab DP…that’s a good idea, I should probably hit the lab and figure out when to do it. Seismos drive me nuts. Like sometimes I will Ultra 1 them but I have also had times where I get knocked out of my Ultra before it connects. So I usually pick U2 right now. I’ll try to take this stuff into account next time I play a Viper, thanks man. Like one of the biggest problems I have with her right now is that she can just back dash out of my pressure when I don’t have Ultra stocked. And I suck at OSing Ultra off of cr.LK/cr.LP lol, need to practice that badly…tried the method you posted a while back (cr.LK ~ cst.LK + LK Legs) and her dash doesn’t get caught by it. Suckkss…could OS dash, I guess, but that’s really risky.
Also, eating burn kicks. When I’m in the corner, should I just block as if it wasn’t a cross up? I’m not sure how burn kick, Ultra works…I’m guessing I have to eat LK Burn Kick to get out of the corner, which crosses up, but HK/EX doesn’t (which it needs to be for Ultra?)