Seth-in-depth Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1101

I wasn’t calling you out. I appreciate the testing you did. But some of it doesn’t match up with my own personal experience and testing.

But Ryu’s cr.hk is his farthest range poke and is extremely fast. It’s worth noting. People use it as a poke and counterpoke. Knowing that his sweep gives you 130 free damage on block makes it pretty juicy.

As a fireball feint, not a normal attack feint. He has no standing normals worth feinting besides s.hk
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I’m just making the point that a guess tanden to beat a fireball isn’t safe.

No it doesn’t but the range is farther than any of his other fast normals and the range that you could do 2x s.lk is a range where Ryu will try to abuse cr.mk.

The only reason I mentioned it is that in lots of matchups now Ryu has to use it to stuff medium pokes like Dic’s s.mk. I’d guess it works the same what for Seth’s s.mk.

I know the AE nerfs were big but I didn’t think they were that bad in terms of range. And I thought Seth’s cr.mk had a bad hurtbox to go along with its longer startup and long range hitbox.They only added 1 active frame to Seth’s cr.mk. Which does make a difference for sure. And I agree cr.mk xx mk legs is definitely useful nowadays especially since cr.mk hits low.

1102

Okay you were right about the cr.mk at max range. That’s retarded. Poor Ryu.

Seth’s s.mk loses to Ryu’s sweep for free.

Ryu’s cr.mp beats most things or is safe against Seth. s.hk works sometimes, Seth sweep beats it(first real use I’ve found for it!). Who wins cr.mp vs cr.mp is mostly a crapshoot but it’s not in your favor.

For the most part your s.mk can’t whiff punish Ryu’s cr.mk but it’s still useful because it controls space in front of you.

1103

Wow, this must be one of the very worst match-up thread on these forums.Theres like no useful info at all on the main post.Why isn’t the guy who made it updating ?

“In-depth” My ass.

1104

He doesn’t post here anymore.

1105

He didn’t even play Seth, he just thought it was cool to be op. He also raged on me when I perfected him:rofl:

Kinda ironic if you ask me

1106

The Seth forums are rather weak compared to a lot of character forums. A large amount of the posts ask asinine questions such as how to combo into head stomps mid-screen and in the corner.

1107

Yeah…we lack a good forum here :[
I may just end up making a new Matchup Thread, see if we can get a new one stickied, do some community service to improve the current one.

This one is so out of date that half the info is on how to punish Seth’s nj.HP from Super SF4 lol

1108

I am tired of losing to my friend’s Sakura. Getting in is a pain. It feels like her cr.MK has infinite reach. Once I manage to do this daunting task, I have to rely on grab or ambiguous cross-up because it feels like any reads in the air get stuffed by what I’ve deemed “the jesus kick.” Should any of these prove to be the wrong idea, I usually die because of lolcombos into solid pressure.

How the fuck do I beat Sakura?

Thank you for your time. seriously every time someone picks Sakura I immediately think “Oh joy. I wish I picked Sagat.”

1109

Sakura does retarded damage off everything but you can whiff punish her cr.mk with your own or sweep. If you think she’s going to cr.mk you can divekick to make her block. Your FA has better range than her cr.mk, use it to make her react to your stuff. s.lk can whiff punish and is safe to throw out. You can AA Sakura fine despite her retarded jump-in.

Sakura has terrible wakeup. For example, you can whiff a low jab and recover before EX shooken hits. Same for her ultra. This makes her extra free to empty jump cr.lk.

After lk tatsu on block you’re at even. SPD will beat everything besides normal throw, (random chance if she times it perfectly) jump, shooken, and backdash, and SRK will beat everything besides backdash.

If she random neutral jumps to guess anti-air, super or U1 her. Or punish her with far hp or raw legs on the way down. If you’re lame and safe you can punish with sonic boom.

Her fireball is terrible and is always a free EX legs.

She can AA Seth well with cr.hp but the reward isn’t that great for her. Unless she has U2 stocked there’s not too much risk for jumping.

Backdashes/teleports during pressure strings against Sakura are very useful. Not on wakeup, those are easy to OS. After blocking cr.lk xx cr.lp, for example.

1110

Empty jumping helps in that match or diving short, her c.fp is godly but has bad range. This match you have to be extremely safe and solid, one wrong mix up on you part and you are losing the round.

1111

Do it. Seth is really different now, might as well.

1112

The basic idea of a Seth match-up thread is pretty funny because of how diverse/random(?) he can be. people asking how to play as Seth is just as good as when people ask how to play against Seth. Can’t really give a straight answer.

On that note, does anybody think Seth has any bad match-ups for 2012? I think vs Ibuki is usually a hard fight due to her having better air to air options and can neckbreak or slide under sonic booms on reaction. damn she can even whiff her command “grab” outside of poke range, or up close if she’s sniffing a jump, focus, or crouch tech. plus she has actual block strings that cancel into her safe spin kicks and leave her right outside of mix-up/reversal range, or she can super jump to continue the pressure. I don’t want to feel like I’d have to counterpick in this match-up, but I’m really curious what Seth has going for him here to convince me he holds up well against her. As it stands right now, my only answer is “teleport” which sure isn’t good enough.

Thankfully this is AE 2012/ “You’re still alive?” edition, where people actually have to earn their wins!

1113

i think seth versus ibuki is 6-4 seth. he beats her at midrange (cause she has like no midrange game) and his vortex is harder for her to deal with than hers is for him to deal with… everything else is basically player versus player specific. ibuki can definitely beat seth, but in the long run especially over a series of matches i think hes going to almost always be coming out on top.

plus the matchup officially got harder in 2012 cause of his increased health and stun

also, i dont think any good seth gets his boom countered by regular neckbreakers… ibuki basically has to neckbreaker BEFORE seth does his sonic boom in order for her to go underneath it and hit him in recovery… in other words a complete flatout guess or a read. its not something seth should ever be scared of, if the ibuki player is in the habit of going for it shes going to guess wrong at least 75% of the time and thats being nice… plus shes minus 13 on it no matter the timing or range used so max damage punishes are EASY… especially if seth is looking for it and if ibuki is trying to use regular neckbreakers in neutral then he should definitely be looking for it.

theres a seth player out here that i simply cant beat much… it may be a skill gap or it may be me being rusty as hell at the game. i just think its seth.

anywho long time no talk to :slight_smile:

-dime

1114

Matches I think are legitimately “bad” in 2012: Viper, Sakura, Fei, Adon, Akuma
The good part: Viper and Fei, his arguably worst match ups, are less threatening (Fei much less!) Akuma is easier without fst.HK and with Seth’s improved Ultra 1.

Including matches I think that I may just have problems with personally, you could add Chun, Dee Jay, Juri, and Hakan. I saw Captain playing Hakan actually, maybe he could drop me some hints.

The more I play Ibuki, the more I think it is slightly in Seth’s favor. Like 5.5 range. It’s true that you basically can’t zone her out…I’ve tried, time and time again. But she has to come to you. You can just absorb any Kunai until you get Ultra 1 to take it off the table. She doesn’t have a reliable way to approach, I think. Your fst.LK, fst.MK, and cr.MK blow up just about anything she can use to get in. You can blow through any jumps, Kunai or not, with your DP at the range she would want to use them to get in. You throw her out with any Hyakuretsukyakus. And once you get a knock down - from a throw, command grab, DP, or even a Hyakuretsukyaku near the corner - she is mad free on wake up. Mid-screen, I’m pretty sure you can shut down her options with a safe jump OS Legs. In the corner I think you can just abuse DP.

If Ibuki knocks you down, it shifts the match to like 8-2 in her favor. You have to guess what to do most of the time. Usually the best answer is to just block and hope you blocked the right way. Sometimes it’s a good idea to EX SPD. Every now and then it’s actually a good gamble to throw out EX Hyakuretsukyaku too (will catch Ibuki if she’s flow charting her mix ups.) Delayed DP FADC is also a nice bet if you have the meter to spare. But blocking is usually the best…kinda sucks. And getting out of that pressure usually requires a well timed SPD or burning meter regardless for a DP :frowning: .

@ dime, I used to think that too, but the range Seth usually wants to throw Booms is actually where Ibuki players can react. His recovery on it is pretty bad. It’s only a problem for Ibuki if she’s totally full screen.

Good point with Neckbreaker though, if you ever block it, just cr.HP that shit. In addition, if you safe jump EX Kicks. Dash under and cr.HP. Took me like an hour to realize that lol

1115

are you talking about regular non ex neckbreaker? i find it hard to believe that any ibuki is fast enough to reactively neckbreaker through seths fierce boom.

if your talking about ex neckbreaker then thats a completely different story… but i wasnt talking about ex breaker when replying to metroxylon.

ex breaker is something that seth should be VERY afraid of cause its the one tool that makes the matchup playable for ibuki cause she has an easy unblockable against seth after a connected ex breaker.

-dime

1116

Yeah what’s up Al? How’s the great down under treating ya? Seems KOF is the new hype around here. That umvc3 isn’t much better than vanilla, and arguably just as bad, though I’ve only tried it like once.

I do realize neckbreaker isn’t always a guaranteed punish to booms, but it’s definitely an option to keep me wary. Like just theory fighting in my head, I feel like if I don’t have the momentum, or can’t get ibuki to sit still, my only option for zoning is to catch her at some point with a DP. And the basic fact she can slide under booms, to quickly and easily bypass that option, further enforces my belief that Seth shouldn’t be using booms much at all.

Seems vs Ibuki, I have to play 90%-all rushdown, otherwise her options are better than mine. Same goes with Guy. I think he’s a good/great counter to Seth also. Him being the hardest to connect stomps in the corner on makes him a threat.

@TheBreaker: Adon’s not so bad. After blocked tanden engine, neutral jump to bait out reversal rising jaguar. Also pick U1 to punish any wall dive or jag tooth. I also have some Adon specific technology that isn’t as good now as it was in Chocolate; and I’ll leave it unmentioned due to it being particular to my style rather than being an overall good idea on him. If pulled off right though, It counters or avoids any of his reversal options. It’s not an OS either :stuck_out_tongue:

1117

lol I think online was just fucking with my timing. Applied some of the ideas and bodied him pretty easily at my house. cr.MK buffered into Tatsu gave me some troubles though.

1118

yo seth, im doing well out here, theres actually a bigger scene out here than out there in eugene. problem is that people get together and play less… meh. mvc3-umvc3 is trash but i still like the game. you HAVE to play top tier in that game. learning that is what makes me say the game is trash.

what ibuki players are you playing out there? i dont remember there being any except me. are you talking about online? i have no idea how the matchup plays online, though your wariness to random breakers would make more sense in that case. i just generally think seth has the advantage in neutral and has a better vortex versus ibuki. i could be biased though. one of the best ibukis in the uk thinks seth v ibuki is 6-4 seth. hes one of the best ibukis in the world. on video it seems to play off that way as well as generally when i see a seth and ibuki of near the same level of play ibuki usually loses… if the seth matchup is 8-2 ibuki when hes knocked down, its 9-1 ibuki when SHES knocked down… LOL. i know what a rigged ho she can be as ibuki mirror is basically free win for first knockdown… ibuki is free to other ibukis…

-dime

1119

a 4 frame safe jump setup (you might already know it )

backthrow - walljump K or P

that’s it ^^

1120

Okay I know I’m reading this over a year after it was posted, but that really helps me. I don’t really know frame data all that well, and I never realized that cr.LP, cr.LP, cr.MP has a 2 frame gap which means Zangief can SPD before the cr.MP.