no joke how do u not put that in. thats a sakura trademark
Just so you know (Lone Dragon): c.LPx2 > c.HP xx EX Shunpuu > s.LP (202) > c.LPx2 > c.HP xx EX Shunpuu > Ultra (402) = 604 damage total (my guess of 600 wasn’t far off :P), add 45 to that if using j.HK in the corner. Upping the damage a bit won’t make you do 800+ by any stretch of the imagination.
I said that saying only to test the water (since I don’t play that many people who probably are aware of the mix-up from the get go), if they know about the mix-up then I’ll use a 3-hit link combo before the EX Shunpuu. After all you get more damage from it and if they don’t know it and can’t learn to defend against it I’ll abuse the crap out of it 
Off a reset I think the faster of us (not me) could probably hit confirm off just the c.LP > c.HP as you said, the c.HP will enable you to also varify which side you land on as well as give you enough time to cancel into EX Shunpuu with it’s meaty hit stun and recovery. Being able to react off a stray c.LP however, have no idea how you could do that :looney:
Tell me about it, she doesn’t even have the dance as a taunt 
Nor does she have her shoe flying off either
Well, I didn’t really test your way, I was just estimating in my head…and using more hard attacks.
If you replace the second crouch lp with a standing lp (which works on crouch for a number of characters), you get an additional 5 damage. Plus, if you use a jumping lp to reset instead of a standing one (don’t know why you did that), it will do 222, instead of 204.
And, anyways, if you did it my way, it would have been in the 800 range: I know that HP > lk.Shun > cr. HP > EX Shun > Ultra does like 524, instead of 402.
Also, if you use a hard attack to reset instead of a s. LP, it would do even more. And, yes, it is possible.
And, instead of 2xlp -> HP XX Shunpu, you could do lp, cr.hp -> LK shunpu -> lk -> EX Shunpu -> etc. for more than just 202 (on some characters).
If you want to saturate the combo with a bunch of light attacks, then yeah, it’s going to lessen the damage.
I was F’ing appalled that they didn’t have it in the first place. How can Capcom remove this stuff from Sakura!?! Where’s her flying shoe!?! /rant
@ the lone dragon
the reason why u use cr lk first is becuase its stuffs certain moves like blanka’s electricity, and buffalo head butt. its just safer to do because they tend to hit on your opponents start up frames for jabs or grabs, or what ever fast attacks they have. also they have to guard low and some people try to just walk backwards out of the mix up and if u dont hit low they get away. your more likely to land damage but starting with cr lk
I can’t wait until super. I really am getting sick of the timing you have to use on her lk cross up. It’s rather annoying sometimes. Sometimes I’ll miss just because somebody is ducking, or because they walked forward a millimeter. Someone please explain why dan has better fireballs and a better cross up that sakura?
Dan’s not done teaching her the way…
I try to continue a mixup on blanka/chun/honda (Fucked Up Hit Box People) with s.hp xx lk shunpu blah blah, instead of the usual c.lk, s.lp business because those combos will whiff on the FUHBP
another huge thing on the wishlist for super: fix the hitboxes so my combos don’t whiff on people who already have so many strengths against me… I mean, I could see if those combos whiffed on people who somehow had a hard time dealing with sakura (LOL, as if) but the way it is now it makes already difficult matchups even MORE difficult… that can’t be intentional balancing. I know this isn’t the first or probably even in the top 100 times this has been said… but… ah… saying it again anyway 
Sure, in general, it would be safer to use lk. I personally use cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.hp. I know this.
However, if you’re in a desperate situation (and since we’re talking about Ultras, we are in a desperate situation), your priorities will change from safety to inflicting as much damage as possible. In that case, using cl.hp post reset would be an easy replacement that allows one successful ex shunpu to translate to 800 hp total. That would be too much.
Ultras and comboed Ultras simply shouldn’t approach 600 damage IMO, unless the combo is REALLY difficult to land. And, thanks to resets, safe EX shunpus, and 3 frame jabs/shorts/fierces, landing ultra is simply not difficulty to do with Sakura. Not difficult at all.
That’s all I’m saying.
It sucks when Sagat does it. It will suck if Sakura can do it, too.
s.LP over second c.LP and j.LK over s.LP reset gives 210, not 222 j.LK walk under reset I’m not sure but might be character specific, otherwise it’s dash or no dash, which then isn’t really a proper 50/50 as people can see if you dash or not.
Remember the damage gets weaker the closer the enemy gets to being KO’d, the 402 value was taken directly after the 202 (does 412 on full health).
And also prone to give you random Otoshi or Hadouken
“FUHBP”? Think it works on Chun but yeah right about it not working on Blanka. Honda and Akuma also doesn’t work and Vega as well if you cross under.
Not necessarily that desperate, just need to be around 50% to have Ultra ready, not even that if you abrosb a few fireballs or whatever in the process.
Well to get a reset opportunity you need to land an EX Shunpuu, random EX Shunpuu generally aren’t that safe or wise and you’re rarely close enough to apply pressure with jabs to hopefully hit confirm into an EX Shunpuu and most of the time they’ll be blocked anyways. I think it’s harder than you make it out to be and it’s certainly harder to land than Sagat’s, Ryu’s, Rufus’s, Abel’s and quite a few others.
It won’t suck when Sakura does it, it will be awesome! And I still raise the point about Shinkuu Hadouken making it useless unless it does do more damage.
the reason why it wont suck if sakura did it is because your opponent has 2 ways out. he can block or reversal, if reversal hits ultra, if not back dash. and that is the difference. sagat will get it and sakura has a chance to get it.
Jump lp, not lk. Jump lp does more damage than lk.
Eh? j.lk and j.lp are both walk under resets.
Maybe you meant jump hk. If you do dash > early jump HK/HP, you can control which side you land on depending on your timing. It serves as another confusing reset option.
Even taking the life bar scaling into account, the whole sequence currently does 729 damage on Viper and 737 on Ryu (762 on Ryu if you use j.hp to reset)
And, heaven fobid you land her FA, which is already awesome in SF4…in SSF4 they’re rumoured to be even better. That allows even more damage and more stun.
If you up Ultra damage more than that in SSF4, bring on the rage quits and hate mail for Sakura players. I’ve already received enough of that, thank you very much!
I find Sakura’s ultra much easier to land than Abel’s. For Abel, you need to land an 8 frame cr.hp, a 7 frame crouch mp, or some tight links with 2 bars, or a super close crouch jab -> standing mp/hp -> etc, which requires 2 meter and nerfs the damage. For Sak you just need to land a jab.
Don’t forget to consider stun. Sagat and Ryu don’t put you on the verge of Stun after their DP > FADC > Ultras.
its still all on a guess. something your opponent has plenty of ways to get out of.
I’d quite like it if they gave her the ability to cancel her fireball like Makoto can with her dash punches. …or even if they just gave her Ryu’s old fake fireball.
It does? Wow, learn something new every day.
I meant that on certain characters you’re not able to walk under them, thus making walk under reset character specific. I like to use s.LP reset as I think it’s more confusing (and gives people less time to think if they’re unaware of it).
I don’t believe j.HP allows you dash under unless it’s near the corner then it’s a bit odd. Either of them put you at either 0 or -1 since I’ve been able to mash jab to either beat the follow-up or trade with it, sometimes it just blocks but the fact is I was able to beat it occasionally.
Which isn’t 800+
Think you give her Focus Attack too much credit, it’s okay, I might even say it’s good but it isn’t great. I think Dan has a better one personally, Ryu does too (obviously).
People rage quit because they don’t know how to handle her reset/mix-ups and think it’s cheating or something, not because her Ultra does meaty damage (which it doesn’t). As Nitro said upping it would only add a small amount (50-70ish) on the end of a hit confirm or whatever but it will mean you can punish harder. And again I’ll say it needs more damage to still be useful compared to using Shinkuu Hadouken.
I think Abel can make more opportunities and at least his serves as an anit-fireball as well, something Sakura’s does not. Landing a straight c.HP is quite tough but it’s not uncommon to see a CoD FADC into it. Let’s not forget the occasional 2nd hit of c.HP as AA and maybe even CoD giving the right juggle opportunity for it to land. For Sakura to “just land a jab” she “just needs to get close”, which quite frankly is easier said then done. Assuming she’s made better to allow herself to get in easier it will still be tricky shit.
Her FA is godly, it’s one of the reasons I play her. How many times have I escaped a c.MK -> combo/sweep because of the little jump animation… Not to mention it looks awesome.
But recently, I’m baiting more and more players to jump and punish it with light Shou (not only Gief), which can be followed by medium/heavy Shou since it juggles but it deals minimal damage. If full Ultra II can land after this, be it the ground or air version, I’ll be very happy. Sure this may look like a Ryu set-up to some but it’s a bit harder because of the differences of Sho and Shou.
Like Destin, I don’t have problem spacing j.LK to follow up with a combo, but given the extra stun/damage, j.mk it’s really appreciated. If it has Abel/Bison/Ken’s j.mk properties ([media=youtube]pnaC6usntv0[/media]), it will be infinitely times better than her current j.lk.
I don’t mean dash under. I mean EX shunpu -> dash foward -> jump early hp on the way up -> land on either side depending on you timing.
Sometimes they can mash LP out when it crosses up, but if you adjust the timing properly so it doesn’t cross up, they can’t. So, mashing jab is too risky for them, since it’s too difficult to tell in the heat of battle which side you will land on. It’s all very timing dependent…and confusing for the opponent.
It’s a nice mix-up option to alternate with, and it does more damage.
And, of course, characters who don’t have 3 frame jabs to mash will have even more trouble.
It isn’t 800+ NOW.
But, we were talking about increasing ultra damage in SSF4, which would put it around the 800+ range…and that’s what I was protesting.
word!
just a reversal would be nice…
Seems very tight (on crossing up) and doesn’t seem to work on big characters unless in the corner (I tried for quite a while against Zangief). Doesn’t matter though, all they need to do is pick a direction and mash c.LP, if they’re lucky they’ll beat or trade with you, maybe they’ll just block if they picked the right direction and the mashed jab doesn’t come out quick enough but it means there’s now less chance of them getting caught You say it’s confusing but there are some people who’s instance defense is to do just that, in which case you kinda need to go with a reset that’ll let you hit meaty.
Realistically speaking the highest damage you’d get from it would be: c.LPx2 > c.HP xx EX Shunpuu > j.HK (247) > c.LP > c.HP xx EX Shunpuu > Ultra (449) = 696, with a buffed up Ultra we’d probably be looking at 770 tops.
Why c.LPx2? Well I dunno about you but when I throw out random close range counter pokes I do it from crouch and it takes two to realise that the first one hit. Shortened the hit confirm but don’t think people really use HP xx LK Shunpuu as a hit confirm in this situation. Still this is assuming you guess right at the reset and that’s with full meter, nothing is guaranteed.
Saying “if you guess right then you do stupid damage” well can’t you apply that to everything? Keep guessing wrong against Akuma and Fuerte then you’re fucked, quite frankly I feel they have better mix-ups than Sakura.
I’m still waving the “Haru Ranman needs a damage buff or Shinkuu Hadouken will make it useless” flag
And I’m saying If Sak could guess right and do stupid damage, then she’d be a more viable character. Unless the Ultra damage in general damage is drastically reduced in Super,having a high damage option like that will not make her broken, or top tier. Just more viable.
That on top of better footsie tools, j.MK cross, a workable fireball and maybe even a slight damage output increase would still only make her a good character, which is kind of what I’m aiming for.
FYI with a 100 point damage increase, c.LP > c,HP XX EX Shunpu > Ultra = 519. Requires Full Ultra and 1 EX meter. Adding in the LK Shunpuu > c.HP would make the buffed Ultra deal about 268 damage at the end, instead of the 218 it would currently.
Good damage for a hit comfirmable Ultra? Certainly. But taking into account her drawbacks as a character (which even when buffed wouldn’t disappear), as well as the requirements for the full damage combo (full Ultra and 25% meter) it’s not like giving her an edge in that department is going to make her broken. Dragon, you say 800+ like Sak would be able to start a round and instantly take an opponent down to <20% life with that. 770 points of not guaranteed damage only near match endgame is just not as big a deal as you’re making it out to be.
Forget Shinkuu Hadoken making Haru Ranman useless. I just want a useful Haru Ranman. Upping the damage will make it more useful, and have little other effect aside from being one of many little changes that could make Sakura a lot better.