Guys, I feel like I need to relearn the entire Bison Match up. That Ex Scissor buff with the High TS Nerf is just very frustrating. I feel the risk vs reward isn’t in Sagat’s favour, but I’m going to grind it out. I find my self getting cornered too easily, I gotta fight back.
Naw, Sagat still got Bison covered IMO. Get a life lead - turtle - win.
EX scissors does like 40 damage or some stupid shit, if you can’t see he’s charging then you’ve got the blinkers on. Only thing Bison has is random stomp and risky slide. Sure he’s got good footsies but his jump arc is massive, his headstomp get’s beat clean from neutral fierce, his scissor pressure can just be jumped out of or countered up close with st.mk or cr.fierce. He’s free to cr.lk pressure on wake up…
I’d play Bison all day. Viper on the other hand…
Thing is though Bison never has to jump in on Sagat IMO, or very rarely at that. His neutral game is very good against Sagat, and his Fadc through FB’s is some of the best in the game.
Bison’s pressure on Sagat seriously test his patiences, 3 frame lows in to Scissors is still very good. Got no problem blocking it all day though lol.
I think Sagat Viper was 5-5, not anymore though.
Thanks highland…block sniper and inch in with quick dashes…got it.
Bison annoys me as well…his standing roundhouse and scissor kick pressure is stupid and too safe. Was playing a bison today actually…I dont enjoy that match…not saying its unwinnable but its just not fun.
Just stand outside his fierce range and either cr.fierce , cr.mp ( buffer shot) or just use low TS, if he’s inside then yeah you have to block.
His focus dash throw is quite good I agree, I still think he’s not that tough though. Even in the corner Sagat can just play patient and AA.
I kind of like the bison type matches, its proper SF, none of this Rolento, Elena type shit.
I could bump the combo thread, but fuck it. This one’s more active, so here I go…
I can’t play online right now, but have a hard copy so was in labs/trials (hoping that since the version changes, I’m not setting myself up for failure):
-I think I read somewhere that Sagat’s jump-in is best with MK, but the dmg is btter/link seems easier with HK.
-Wtf do you use you cross-up with? LK seems like the only thing [easily] crossing up, which is saddening.
-Unless Ultra I is chained with Super, Ultra II is better, right?
If I’m wrong about the aforementioned, is it due to dmg scaling for specific combos?
HK and HP are your jump-in normals. MK should only be used for neutral jumps. MP is decent.
LK is Sagats only crossup, HK can sometimes cross up but its rare depending on spacing or needs to be setup.
Ultra 1 does more damage than Ultra 2, but 2 has more utility. U2 should be used in fireball character MU’s or to punish certain moves like Blanka balls. U1 should be used for MU’s like Dudley, Abel, Rolento etc.
Thanks. I’m watching some Bonchan from Thaiger Uppercut and noticing him doing cr.lp, TS fadc, ultra I and cr.mk into the same, along with TU FADC, f.HK, ultra I.
How about this Kara TU/kara ex TU? Since it’s a kara, I can’t rly see what people are using to give it distance. Is f.LK/f.HK being canceled?
u can kara with both forward lk and hk. Hk is the cancellable move of choice since its much faster, but forward lk covers more ground.
Just picked up Sagat a couple weeks ago. I’ve fooled around with his ultras, and I have to ask: is there any reason to pick U2 or UW over U1? I have found no extra utility for U2; U1 can be used in the corner after EX Tiger Shot, or on backdash FADC. Either one can be used with “dp, FADC, f.HK, Ultra”, too.
Also, how can I consistently produce kara Tiger Shot? Every time I get uppercut or knee instead, even though my input is correct.
Thanks in advance for the help!
Ultra 1 is the better ultra due to damage, however off of a back dash, ultra 1 seldom connects fully. With ultra 2 you can reliably connect it on a back dash or even off a full screen ex tigershot. Ultra 2 is also the preferred ultra if you are in fireball zoning wars due to its fast startup, you can catch characters as they are throwing fireballs. I seldom use ultra 2 though unless im fighting akuma, bison and sometimes ryu.
As for kara Tigershot, theres a thread somewhere here that explains how to do it, however timing is very strict so i cant pull it off reliably myself. as per the advice on the forum, it helps to do a forward light step kick then let the stick go to neutral and follow that with a quick half circle forward and punch or kick for the Ts.
Thanks for the responses! I also just thought today that U2 has better advantage on block; U1 on a bad read opens you up so bad for a full punish.
Thanks man, your channel is pretty sick. I really need to learn some links as Sagat instead of my scrubby shoto dp combos, those videos should help out for sure.
So what’s up with Bonchan lately using meaty stand jab on Yun’s wakeup? Anybody have a clue?
Also, what’s the deal with tiger knee trade…do we get to act first or what?
I know meaty st.jab works on Rufus EX messiah , it makes it whiff and you can block in time, but Yuns up kicks are faster. It could be because I think (not 100%) Yuns up kicks all work differently, it could be a specific reversal strength that whiffs or gets blocked in time.
Tiger knee trade I think is even, there’s no way you would have advantage.
Ok, stupid question time. I played this ryu player the other day and he had this very annoying habit of standing just outside of grab range and charging focus. if i tried to jump back he woudl release and punish, if i tried to uppercut he would backdash, if i tried to knee he would release and either trade or catch me clean. I tried to backdash a couple of times be we all know sagat has the worst backdash in the game. its like he really knew sagats ranges.
It was frustrating because the only clear cut solution was ultra, and if i didnt have that then i was kinda caught in a simple mixup. Suggestions?
thanks in advance
If he’s clearly abusing it , you could dash up throw for a quick punish, st.lk, ex shot or ex knee.
Another method is to simply just start using your own focus to absorb or crumple his.
When he focus though he loses control of the character so you could effectively jump in normal ( gets focused) then tiger uppercut straight away.
Krimzn you gotta abuse guys like that, as Highland said you can jump forward make them absorb one hit and mash DP, works on virtually anyone without a godly backdash(won’t work on Fei or Rose)
But you gotta start cancel buffering cr.mk or cr.lk into dp like Ryu’s do with cr.mk. It destroys focus attacks.
Yeah there are tons of ways around focus, it’s slightly better online because you get an extra couple of frames to fish with it because of the conditions.
You could always be sneaky and load up a AS Tiger Uppercut to break the armour, I use that sometimes on people that use a lot of focus fishing for low shots. 9 times out of 10 they either won’t know or will forget that it breaks glass.
Thanks for the prompt responses high and joe…appreaciate it. I find jumping forward works best in my situation because the guy basically stands out of grab range with ryu while im on the ground and then loads up all the way until level 3 and just as i think he is about to let it rip and i uppercut, he backdashes and im punished…if i try TK which breaks glass, he lets go early and i get hit before it comes out…so yeah, buffering cmk into ts wouldnt have worked because i would have been hit before the ts came out.
Thanks a lot for the advice though dudes…much obliged.
one more thing…lol there always is…
Do you guys find that a lot of characters start playing the “lets play supermario world and cross up sagat” game once they knock you down? I mean the first thing people do once they knock me down is start hopping around left and right, then it’s cross up, mash cr jab into throw (this is especially annoying as the crouchtech sometimes works and sometimes doesnt).
I try to discourage it with dp but it isnt always reliable due to characters slipping through over it or outright beating it or you not getting out in time . I thought of learning how to use close stand mp as an anti air but its too conditional. I stuck to focus backdash, but it still get caught with a hit when i do this. How do you guys deal with these mixups and whats a safe way to get out? I have a feeling you’re going to say block and crouch tech some more…but heres to hoping theres something i have missed, lol.