Trust me, you really don’t want to know. Determining frame data is extremely tedious. They slow the game down with capture devices and examine each individual frame.
Ok good stuff. But I’m still lost with just the general inputs to get a fireball out instead of TU…even with l.step kick. scratches head is it timing or the input?
So it’s not possible to determine it by the frame data then i’m guessing. That’s all I really wanted to know, thanks
The easiest one to begin with is the light TS into Kara shot. Go into the training room. Set the dummy on block all, throw a light TS. Now just before the light TS hits, input :qcf::lk: then :hp: or any other button of your choice (Piano, double tap that button if you like). The shot must have hit or been blocked for the kara shot to come out. Two shots can’t be on the screen at the exact same time. The timing is making your new shot come out as the old one is dispersing. The same applies for the shot disappearing off the other side of the screen.
For a single Kara shot. The stick must go into the neutral or back (half circle) points of your gate (or pad). It must be done slightly slower. As a new (ish) Sagat, I don’t really use this.
You can kind of figure it out in a ghetto way if you do a move that’s +0 on block and have both characters do their reversal immediately. The one that wins probably has more frames of invincibility.
I don’t think that would work either would it? Usually the later DP wins doesn’t it? It’d be cool if they showed us the hit boxes and data in the training room.
It seems kind of strange that they know that we know how important frame data is yet neglect it where we need it most. Training should be much more fun than a room full of squares and hitting start every 60 seconds.
The point is that the +0 move beforehand means that both moves from both players will start on the same frame. IE there is no later DP.
Yeah, but what I’m saying is that’s not really a likely situation. You could say x-move beats x-move if performed at the exact same time, but a frame either way might make a difference. I guess what I’m saying is there’s not really a reliable way to test it without seeing the data. Some moves might just fail and pass straight through because of hit boxes. I know with a sagat mirror, I had a double KO when we both hit TU as a finisher, you could see the hitbox on screen, it was pretty weird.
Anyway, you probably know way more than me, I only know frame data for my own characters. I’m just brain farting.
does sagat have any invincibility in any of his moves?
Tiger Uppercut, super, ultra, and EX Tiger Uppercut all have invincibility through their hitting frames. AKA good invincibility.
Sagat’s so tall that anti-air uppercut will often trade because you have to do it earlier but that just gives you a meterless combo into ultra with trade uppercut -> f.hk -> ultra 1.
What is Leslie’s buffering technique?
I don’t see any other sagat twitch as much as him. This seems to be very important vs characters that seemingly can just walk-crouch block you into the corner.
Is he buffering qcf so that he can TS or TU on reaction? If so what happens when he gets super? What about the fact that letting go of block while buffering in the corner gets you poked for free?
- Sent from my HTC eVo with Tapatalk
Is there a way sagat can fully dodge or punish blanka ground ultra 2 from full screen? I always seem to get hit by the second hit
I can go one better. Click on Sagats face. (Or anyone who you would like options for)
[media=youtube]w2Kq-STg9mQ[/media]
Thanks a bunch. I’ll try kara tu from f+lk the next time I run into u2
No worries, I don’t think you can quite get him full screen, I think you have to be maybe more like 3/4. Not sure, just set the dummy on Ultra and see how far you can push it out, remember you have the jumping distance too. It’d be interesting to try out Kara EX Tiger Knee, give that a bash. I can’t get to the game for a while otherwise I’d try it.
[media=youtube]xeYF2JbB6jw[/media] 17:09, looks like a safe meaty TK setup.
Anyone know some useful OS for Sagat besides crouch tech? I remember seeing one where a Sagat was spamming fireballs and as soon as boxer ultra’d through one, the sagat player ultra’d back.
I just wanted to post something that might help up and coming Sagat players(since I’ve seen a lot on these boards lately) on how to improve their Sagat game because it takes time. Feel free to add and critique anything, I want to help the Sagat community stay strong.
Sagat is a zoning character who has above average health, good normals, great ‘comeback’ factor and is one of the few characters with two very reliable ultras. So here are some tips to help you new Sagat players step your game up because Sagat is one of the tougher characters to master in my opinion(and I have a long way to go as well).
General Tips:
-Be patient on your wake up, when you’re playing skilled players the best option 90% of the time is block on your wake-up. Sagat’s Uppercut is a 5 frame uppercut, not like the Shoto 3 frame, so he is easily safe jumped, vortexed and crossed up.
-Safe risks, when you have two bars stocked it’s okay to take a risk on a wake up uppercut or a tech bait uppercut because it’ll be safe. It is a good gauge in letting you know whether your opponent knows how to safe jump, mash tech etc.
-Learn how to zone better, LOW TIGER SHOTS RECOVER SLOWER than high tiger shots, therefore get the timing down and Anti-Air accordingly. Slow tiger shots are an amazing tool that should not be overlooked, slow low shots don’t allow people to walk you down and high shots allow you to control the air. Your Tigershots are your full screen pokes, and they are great.
-Learn Sagat’s Kara mechanics. This is crucial to having a solid Sagat, and literally changes the Character compared to a none Kara using Sagat. The reason it is important to learn is that it increases the range on all Sagat’s specials, and it allows you to control the air and ground MUCH more effectively. Lastly, it makes a slow character overall much more agile.
-Bait players. Sagat has a very high Damage uppercut when the opponent jumps(180 I believe). To not get predictable with your Tiger shot game it’s essential to throw out random normals to make it seem like you’re going to throw out a shot. Normals like st.lp and cr.lk are excellent bait tools because the recover in 3 frames and st.lk is great because Sagat’s hitbox is lower to the ground essentially giving your more time to mash out the uppercut. A lot of new Sagat players are missing out however on ONE KEY bait tool…back, down forward, back, down forward, back down forward. That means make Sagat stand and crouch very quickly to make it seem like you are going to through in a low tiger shot, very effective, watch Bonchan do it.
GET YOUR HIT CONFIRMS ON POINT. Sagat’s hit confirming took me a while to get down and I am still learning but one method that helped me the most was putting the dummy in training mode to RANDOM block. When he/she is on auto block it becomes to predictable and doesn’t simulate the real time game to me IMO. Random block will force you to work on your reaction and hit confirming because when you play real opponents there will be mistakes made unlike in autoblock.
Sagat’s Best Normals/uses
Cr.Lp: This is Sagat’s only three frame normal, it is a fantastic normal that is special cancellable, it has even further reach than his cr.lk. This is an essential normal for punishing moves that only have 3 frames to do so.
Cr.lk: In my opinion this is Sagat’s best normal. For starters it’s +3 on block which means Sagat can kick you, stand up, walk up, kick again and set you up for excellent counter hit set ups. It’s great for tick throws and is deceptively quick for a move that starts in 5 frames i.e you end up in range when you don’t think you are.
Cr.mp: Another very good normal, comes out relatively fast and is special cancellable. It is more damaging than Sagat’s cr.mk therefore it is his best choice of method when punishing opponents CLOSE.
Cr.mk: Sagat’s cr.mk pushes him forward and is special cancellable. It is not the quickest normal but it is still very effective. It is an excellent normal for frame-traps and can help Sagat continue to apply pressure due to it’s range and options. It is Sagat’s FURTHEST cancellable normal. ONE TIP, learn, learn, LEARN how to hit confirm cr.mk, into low shot, fadc, cr.mp/mk into uppercut/Tiger knee. That is upwards of 280 damage that can come off simple mistakes(Not blocking low) or frame trap set up, and any time you can land 280 damage you take it!
Cr.hp: A very good high damage poke, opponents can’t afford to eat too many of these. It is a poke that is good for whiff punishing and punishing at max distance if you’re not comfortable with Kara’s. Be careful when you use it though, strong footsie characters can pick it apart.
Cr.Hk, Sagat’s sweep is just average IMO which isn’t terrible, I mostly use it to max punish whiffed specials because it creates an untechable knockdown.
st.lp: Great normal for baiting opponents, is also excellent to do meaty on opponents wake up, especially on Rufus.
St.Mp…ass
Close St.Mp, Gaaaad like. Sagat virtually shove his arm up and behind his head to Anti Air the opponent. It’s great on opponents who try to cross up and it is special cancellable. Alioune Sensei buffers a TK into this normal so when he AA’s his opponent his TK comes out and he can continue his pressure in his opponents face.
St.Hp, not really that used by me, it does feel good to punch Zangief in the dome with it as a whiff punish. It’s good for catching characters with good back dashes as well.
St.lk: Under used by a lot of new Sagat’s, this move is an excellent counter poke, but most importantly it’s great for learning your distance and spacing. The first hit can be fadc’d which is still decent.
St.mk: This move is EPIC. Quick, high priority, and goes over low attacks. Does decent damage and good for spacing, causes good pushback. Stop’s scissor kicks, Akuma’s double hk etc.
Forward+Hk: The twirl kick, very good move, does solid damage and can lead to Ultra(s) and ex tiger shot. Predict players jump ins, you can get two in if you catch the player at their peak. It’s also one of Sagat’s TWO kara normals, use it for Kara knees, Uppercuts and shots(when on screen).
St.Hk: Great anti-air normal and nightmare to big targets. Don’t get to trigger happy with it against smaller characters, when they crouch they can easily counter poke and mess you up.
His Air normals are decent, j.lk is his only cross up.
Sagat’s Combos
Before I state his essential combos It’s important to note that you have to always maximize your damage, because when you lose to an opponent that has a pixel of health left you are left kicking yourself. LEARN how to always connect with Sagat’s f.hk after an uppercut FADC, it’s too much raw damage just to shrug off. Note that Characters like Gouken and Balrog(boxer) fall out of it easier, but that doesn’t mean you can’t get them.
*Note these are the best/most used combos not flashiest.
cr.lk x2 cr.lp TU…the sagat BnB. You won’t learn it over night, and it will frustrate the hell out of you, but learn it, take time, it’ll never leave you when you do!
Cr.mp> Cr.lp> TS or TU…This link might seem tough at first but you eventually get the hang of it, when you’re in the zone you’ll never miss it and when the cr.mp is counter hit you will NEVER miss it, believe me.
cr.mk> TS or TU, it’s his furthest cancellable normal and it sucks you into the opponent before you unleash a TU. It is the better option than cr.mp many times because it sacrifices SMALL damage for increased range.
cr.mp> TK. This is Sagat’s strongest non-meter combo. If you jump in, Focus crumble, Daze etc your opponent this option is the best course of action.
Cr.lk>Cr.mp>Cr.lp>TU…I used to believe this Combo was difficult but if you plink cr.mp with cr.lk and cr.lp you’ll get it most of the times. The added damage is always good.
Jump in HP into KARA uppercut…this is a max distance punish which is ideal for punishing fireball characters that are tagged at the very tip of their hitbox. Learn how to get this 100% of the time.
Closing tips/Match up tips
Sagat has some great safe jump set ups, most are activated off his forward throw, there are great ones posted on this boards.
Your U2 can connect off a full screen ex.ts, don’t do it too fast however other wise you’ll waste your bar on an ex.uppercut.
Sagat Can destroy characters with poor-wake up’s with cr.lk, into combo/frame trap and other meaty attacks(cr.mp, cr.hp etc).
*I just want to post some tips on some of Sagat’s tougher matches to help you out.
Akuma(Sagats hardest match).
-This is Sagat’s hardest match and in the hands of skilled Akuma player can be a nightmare, but hopefully this makes it a bit more bearable.
-St.mk beats Akuma’s St.hk CLEAN but be careful of Akuma’s sweep, don’t get trigger happy with this normal.
-You can back dash Akuma’s demon-flip grab(if I recall) but the best option is to TU him into next year.
-U2 stops any air fireballs for max damage and if Akuma has no meter you can actually hit him with U2 if he does his redfireball from full screen and you predict it(look out for his flame).
-If you’re playing an Akuma who is st.hk happy and is getting predictable a well timed cr.hk will sweep him and it will allow you to get some space.
-Akuma’s uppercuts beat yours so be weary, use Kara ex uppercuts to go through air ex fireballs OR trade with low shots(in your favour) or sweep/cr.hp(VERY in your favour).
-When Akuma has Ultra, DON’T jump, he’ll simply buffer U1 into sweep…dead.
-Stay positive, just know if you catch him once, he’s dead.
Fei Long
- IMO this is Sagat’s second worst match in AE, due to Fei’s damage output, priority on normals and rekkas that push you into the corner, Sagat’s lonley place lol.
-Neutral jump mk beats chicken wings and rekkas(combo cr.lp after). Don’t get too comfortable with it but it is still solid.
-Space your tiger knees well, you need it to advance forward while hitting fei back, but mistimed could mean lights out so be careful.
-Poorly spaced second rekkas can be punished with Cr.lp into specials.
-When the opportunity arises JUMP over fei and reset the field, sagat Cannot beat fei in the corner.
-Be weary of throwing out poor normals, Fei’s cr.lp buffered into rekkas will counter pick you all day.
-Go into training mode and learn how to uppercut/ultra chicken wings, make it appart of your muscle memory moving forward.
-After a low-tiger shot at certain distances you CANNOT JUMP NOR SHOOT ANOTHER SHOT after if Fei is mashing rekka, it beats you clean, block and play safe.
Viper
-Another tough match for Sagat, but not as bad as Fei or Akuma IMO.
-Kara uppercuts are important, they control the air, they beat ex-sizemos(believe it or not) and they punish sizemos that are mistimed on your jump in.
-TS are as good as usual but be weary of tkbirdkicks
-Random f.hk by Sagat can put an end to bird kics and do amazing damage on Viper.
-Viper can be safe jumped OS TU after a forward throw. Simply forward throw, hk tk, wait a frame then jump and buffer the TU…it beats everything I believe.
-When in the corner block the so you don’t get sent into the wall because even if you get hit it will knock you into the middle of the stage, in the corner Sagat gets more pressure and/or ultra link FREE.
^^^^^^
the only difference in that c.lk > c.mp> c.lp> tu and c.lk> c.lk> c.lp> tu and is that c.mp>c.lp is 2 frame link
other wise linking c.lk > c.mp is exactly the same as c.lk > c.lk
so i dont know why you would need to damn plink or mention that its difficult
viper vs sagat is 5-5
quick question guys: how does one avoid guy’s bushin flip, i tried dashing under it but still got caught… also what do you guys think of the sagat/guy match up ?