Sagat’s tick throw: I am having a tricky time getting this to work. I’ve seen Bon-chan do it here http://shoryuken.com/2011/10/08/topanga-tv-replay-special-guest-bonchan/ around the 0:50 mark - it’s cr.LK, cr.LK throw - his hands are too damn fast for me to see what’s going on! When I try to do this in training, I end up pushing myself too far out of range for a throw. I thought maybe it was a timing issue (maybe it is), but if I hit throw too early, nothing comes out. Can you guys let me know what I’m doing wrong? Is it character/position specific?
Sorry for the off-topic question but is that the same RF that plays Faust in gg?
aye
You have to walk foward a bit then throw. Not a true tick throw. Cr lk> throw is a tick throw
Im new to sagat. While i was watching the Bonchan vs Kazunoko exhibition I noticed a sexy option select bonchan was using against yuns backdash. On yuns wakeup he would do cr.LK into cr.FP. I went into training mode and tried for like an hour to get it to work but I couldn’t. I know I’m not doing it right and I think I understand the concept. I can do jump in option selects all day but not this type or option select. Could anyone explain or maybe do a video showing it?
It is not an OS. It is a frametrap: meaty c.lk, c.hp. It beats blocking+backdash and blocking+OS late tech.
It is NOT like the classic “jab OS sweep” that a lot of chars can do (not Sagat), because c.lk is NOT chain cancellable. If it was the case, the game would have decided wether c.lk~c.lk+c.hp is c.lk, c.lk because the 1st c.lk was blocked and cancelled into itself or c.lk, c.hp because c.hp has input priority over c.lk.
So Bon-chan is basically just reacting to Yun’s backdash with the cr. FP?
Maybe, Bonchan is an insane player. But more probably he committed to the frame trap.You can call it reading or guessing or mixup, whatever you want. It’s not necessarily reaction.
“meaty c.lk, c.hp” beats some stuff that Yun players are very susceptible to do. Yun doesn’t have DP FADC, so reversal is always risky for him.Yun players who often go for reversal will get hurt in the long run against chars with massive punish combos against his upkicks. Sagat is one of them.
He has other choices involving blocking, teching and backdash, and you have to know what beats them.
wait, so how come Dudley can option select cr. LK into ultra on opponents wakeup if his cr. LK is not a chain normal?
mmmm… I didn’t know this either. As far as I was aware, you could option select off any move, it just had to have the timing so that when the move hits the OS’d move doesn’t come out, and when the move whiffs the OS’d move does come out.
I thought all bonchan was doing there ( I noticed this also on the replay), was hitting meaty lk, then timing a lk +crHp. I’m totally shite at option selects though.
I know I’m a bit of a new face here, but I have played with the c.lk + c.hp in training mode and you can use it as an option select due to the pause the game makes when a move hits or is blocked. Its a really small window, but it is possible to time it so that c.lk’s still combo but if the first one doesn’t hit you get the c.hp.
You time the HP in between the cr lks but closer to the input of the second cr lk. If the first one whiffs, you punish the back dash. You can use any move in it’s place really. You can use a sweep, a standing HK, a standing HP, a low step kick, a forward jump if you predict a back teleport, a throw for abel’s roll. It really depends on what you are predicting, what character you are up against, and what the benefit of each one is.
sagat forums , actually making progression and the community helping eachother? Am i in the right place ? 
I’ve researched a bit, and my post was a bit off but not for the reason you stated.
When a move hits or get blocked, the timing is different but not a “pause” per se. In fact the remaining active frames of the move are cancelled into hit recovery for the attacker and block/hitstun begins for the opponent.
What allows you to OS c.lk, c.hp, c.lk is the existence of a “whiff buffer”. (it IS possible, I was wrong, it’s just a lot more difficult than jab OS sweep with the chain cancel).
I’ve found this on Rog forums :
[LIST]
[]Hit negates whiff buffers (FA/Armored Attack as well)
[]Whiff negates cancel buffers
[/LIST]
So… input c.hp during “whiff buffer” frames of c.lk, and if c.lk whiffs, c.hp gets out.
I’m not sure how long this buffer is, but I feel it’s after the move active frames (whiff recovery). So you do your c.lk, c.lk link as usual, and insert c.hp during the 1st c.lk “whiff recovery” frames.
About Dudley meaty c.lk OS U2, it is the same. f+mk OS U2 is even better ! It has 2 active and 9 recovery frames so a very stable and very wide timing to input U2 during the whiff recovery.
And it isn’t special cancellable so you don’t get cancel into DP on hit/block if you input U2 too early. I’ll try Sagat’s moves with similar properties (c.hp probably).
edit: for correctness.
Small Video on the Fei Long board , Mago mentions he might be picking up the King again. He also mention’s that he thinks Akuma might be one of the strongest in V2012. I would post this in the Akuma boards, but I’ll let them tidy up the salt first, then they can have a party.
You can os ultra inside of s.lk. It’s not too hard to time but you want the the first hit to whiff. Several characters can block the ultra after back dashing due to its slow start up though.
o_O Gonna have to re-read all of that and do some more background reading to understand precisely what you guys are saying.
On another point, I wanted to know if Sagat has a safe jump after a hard knock down on an opponent?
hmm, got bored and compiled a list
Corner forward throw:
-back dash, whiff c.strong, forward j.hk
-adon, balrog, cody, deejay, makoto, rose, sakura, yang, yun
-forward dash, whiff f.roundhouse, neutral j.mk
-cammy, dhalsim
-forward dash, whiff f.roundhouse, whiff c.lk, neutral j.mk
-t hawk
-forward dash, whiff s.fierce, neutral j.mk
-all other characters without 3 frame reversals
I recommend plinking normals used in safe jump set ups. Dashes are lenient, but normal inputs have a one frame window (assuming the character you’re safe jumping has a four frame reversal)
Great post, but unclear on what the input would be.
Link c.lk, c.lk as usual. You have to tap c.hp just before the second c.lk. You should get:
- c.lk, c.lk combo on hit,
- c.lk, c.lk blockstring on block
- whiff c.lk, hit c.hp on opponent backdashing the c.lk.
This is OS.
But honestly, I prefer the c.lk, c.hp frametrap. It beats more options, can be CH-confirmed into TU for massive damage etc.
The OS is better against people who don’t block meaties and mash normals, but that’s it.