When advancing on a fireball akuma. (Jump back fireball, land ‘red’ fireball.) I find that if you can get over the red one, you can dash under the air one usually. Anyone else find this to be true?
actually screw what I said here it’s mostly wrong.
Here’s the way it works:
Gief jumpins in. He viably can:
Lariat
c.lk (this one is the most dangerous actually, I’ll explain why in a second)
SPD
Lariat and SPD: If this is all they can or will do, then it’s easy. Shoryu every time, if you time it correctly it beats both these options every time. Lariat is risky for them. Lariat sets them you for another jumpin though as soon as you wake up.
Here’s where it gets scary:
c.lk: Zangief has this combo: c.lk, a few jabs then (how many jabs depends on how far away you are, it’ll be 1-4) and ex green hand. C.lk will beat all Tiger Uppercuts. in addition, zangief can tick throw you off any of the jabs meaning he has 1-4 moments in time to pick a time to throw you and you have to guess to either block or attempt a shoryu/jump on every single one. You can beat the c.lk by blocking but keep in mind he can tick throw you after any hit in the combo except the ex green hand so you just have to read your opponent.
Basically, don’t ever get in this situation because this is where zangief is designed to rape you and it’s a 100% legit mixup. Keep him out at all costs.
Ok guys here’s that post.
Honestly, Sagat’s up close game gets me in trouble sometimes. Someone will be crouching blocking right in front of me and I KNOW I should just throw them back out or push them back out so I can start zoning them with shots, but Sagat has SO many good options up close that I just say “fuck it!” and I play footsies instead.
Let’s go over those options.
Crouching jab - Comes out in 3 frames. Has more range then his crouching short. Since it’s fast it’s useful during footsies to stuff other normals. Leaves you at 0 frames of advantage so it’s safe on block and good for block strings as well.
Crouching short - Comes out on frame 5, and leaves Sagat at plus 3 on block. That’s just…too good. This means that when Sagat recovers from the cr.short his opponent will still be in block stun for 3 frames. Using frame advantage intelligently is key for maintaining a strong offense. This normal has decent range as well and is another main component of Sagat’s block string. Also if you go for the option select tech throw, this will come out if you don’t tech, which is good for Sagat.
Crouching strong - Comes out in 5 frames and has good range and priority. This actually leaves you at +1 on block so it’s worth using. Slightly less frame advantage then the cr. short, but with more range, damage and block pushback. This move is good in block strings and linking after a cr. short.
Crouching fierce - I swear this thing is straight outta CvS2. Comes out on frame 8 which is decent for a heavy normal. But the thing that makes this thing nuts, is the massive priority and the huge range. This thing has more range then almost every other normal in Sagat’s arsenal save for a couple. The range is comparable to a shoto’s cr. forward. When it’s spaced out it pretty much eats any other normal for breakfast. Only very fast high priority jabs will beat it usually and even then they still might get stuffed if they mistimed it.
Standing short - Stupid range, cancellable into specials, and comes out on frame 6. For a light normal it’s on the slower side but it’s utility offsets that minor weakness. It leaves you at -1, but it’s perfectly safe on block especially when fully spaced and you cancel into a Tiger Shot. This is great in block strings and for pushing your opponent out when they are too close for comfort and you want to get back to zoning.
Overhead - The range on this thing is quite deceptive and extends beyond Sagat’s elbow. It’s slow coming out in 20 frames, but Sagat’s focus attack comes out in 21 frames and that sees use so why not this? Safe on block and has good pushback when it hits or if its blocked which is good for setting up your zoning.
Focus attack - This is Sagat’s longest ranged normal. I will repeat that. This move has more range then Sagat’s s.short. It’s also one of the faster Focus attacks. This thing is amazing if only due to the range. Throw it out and then when it’s blocked you cancel into a dash and go for a grab. This works most of the time until people get wise to it. Then you can dash in and do shenanigans like a tiger uppercut or dash in and block to bait and punish an uppercut or even dash into another focus attack. You can throw this out during poke wars and fish for a counter hit and if you get it dash into uppercut to FADC to F+HK to ultra.
Standing jab - Sagat has a pretty good standing jab. Leaves him at +3 when it hits from far away and at +4 when up close. Unfortunately Sagat is very tall and many characters can duck the jab when he is up close although some can’t like Boxer for example. From far away his elbow angles downward so it can still hit crouching opponents which is pretty cool. I need to mess with these moves more, but they may have potential.
As far as block strings go you have a few to choose from:
c.lk 3 times
c.lp 3 times
s.lk into low tiger shot
c.lk, c.lk, c.lp into low tiger shot
c.lk, c.mp into low tiger shot
Try not to get TOO fancy since links have strict timing and if you leave a hole open in your timing you risk eating a reversal.
The beauty of block strings is that once you condition an opponent to a block string when they get in, that’s what they will expect and that’s when the mix-ups begin. Remember this, The smarter your opponent is, the easier it is to fuck with their heads. Abusing frame advantage is a big part of this as well.
Let’s say your opponent is up close so you throw out 2 c. shorts and they get blocked. That’s fine because you are at +3. Now you have some serious options. You could cancel into a tiger shot to push them out. You can walk forward slightly to bait a reversal and then punish. You could throw out an overhead, which works well alot of the time since NO ONE expects it. You can dash in and grab. You could throw out a s.lk and cancel into a Tiger Knee to keep the pressure on. You could throw out a focus attack and you have ALOT of options from there too.
If you went the Tiger Knee route, the guessing game starts all over again and you do have slight frame advantage if it’s blocked on the way down I believe. If you don’t then I’m pretty sure you are at least neutral with your opponent. Using the Tiger Knee keeps the close range game going pretty much.
DO YOU SEE WHY IT’S SO TOUGH TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU ARE UP CLOSE?!!?!!?!?
This dude has TOO many options, and they are ALL good.
Sagat is the fucking emperor. Bow down to him.
If you want to play it safe up close I would usually stick with block strings most of the time, with the occasional focus attack into grab, and pokes cancelled into tiger knees and then maybe a grab or block string from there. But you have alot of tools at your disposal so be sure to experiment.
Also a quick word on Tiger shots. Low shots are better for chip damage pressure and combos, but they come out on frame 12 and have 44 frames of recovery time. High shots come out on frame 11 and have 39 frames of recovery time. That’s 5 frames faster in terms of recovery. High shots also travel faster If I’m not mistaken. Definitely try to work high shots into your game a little bit more if you haven’t already. At the very least, they are rape in fireball wars.
emblemlord, your post is golden. thanks for the great info.
any tips on landing f+hk? i whiff it like 95 % of the time. what sort of distance,height, timing are optimal in landing it?
after the dash in fadc, i continue to hold forward then hit hk when the opponent’s coming down and is about face level
my bad, i meant landing it as an anti air on an opponent jumping in.
yeah, i see a lot of people throw fireballs, then as their opponent jumps over their fireball, they block, or f+hk and catch them
when i do that either:
- i can’t block in time and i get hit with the jump-in hit
- i whiff the f+HK (too soon)
- i throw the standing HK but their jump-in (i.e. shoto HK) takes priority and knocks me down
No jump-in knocks down.
Air Hurricane, Viper’s blazing kick, Dan’s air hurricane, and I’m sure im missing a couple
but those all knd
sorry not necessarily knockdown but i don’t trade hits. they get their hit.
I meant jump in normals.
Saving Cancel is a poor follow up to the “Blocking” system of Street Fighter III…yall are playing Super Street Fighter II X fireball trap and absoulte gaurd and crouching 3 frame jab characters ftw…
same shit…
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f.hp (elbow overhead)
You can fake his f+lk!?!?!? Damn, i’ll be doing allot more throwing mo.
I hate those dictators too. I find jump strait up and hk works well.
MY : Question… Any way to punish dictators bicycle kick?
How do you deal with Abel’s flying kick move? I can’t seem to anti air it. It also hits me out of the air, goes over fireballs, etc.
Also, what buttons should I press when I’m fighting El Fuerte?
I’ve fierce Tiger Uppercutted Abel on his recovery of the Crack Shoot-type move (I assume that’s what you’re talking about?), but I’m not sure if that was just a case of him doing the move too closely. Maybe standing HK will tag his recovery from a little farther out? But if he hits with just the tip of his foot it might cover any frame disadvantage he has.
Just b/c this post such fvckin win I had to quote it.
QFT.
Just had to do it.
EL good shiz btw how’s life mang haven’t seen ya in a minute (not trying to go OT).
Honda is giving me trouble
Honda is supposed to be a good match for Sagat, but I end up losing more than I win. I play a halfway decent Sagat. I’m at 5700+ BP and do well against every other character, but this Honda on XBL just kills me.
If I keep Honda away with Tiger Shots and standing roundhouse, I got a good shot at winning. But once I get knocked down I get killed by normal and EX-Butt Drops.
Frame data says, on block, HK Butt puts Honda at -3 and EX Butt at -2. Afaik, Sagat doesn’t have any way to punish this, am I correct? Jumping away doesn’t help, cuz that’s another easy Butt Drop, since it’s got good horizontal range. Tiger Uppercut doesn’t hit right above Sagat, so that’s no help either.
Only thing that I’ve found that punishes the Butt is doing Ultra when he’s coming down. But when you’re getting crossed up it’s hard get the Ultra to come out.
XBL Honda mixes stuff up too with Ochio-throw, so I experience the Butt Drops as a free mixup for him. I either get thrown, crossed up or hit when I try to get out of there. I always feel I’m pinned down.
Anybody got some advice? This is the only guy I met online so far that beats me consistantly. If I felt I was being outplayed, I wouldn’t feel so bad about it. But right now I feel I’m getting outgimmicked 
Wow, just checked the Japan tier list and it says the Honda match up is 7-3 in Sagat’s favour?! Now I really feel embarrassed. Guess I should work harder on my zoning/keepaway game.
Anybody else got any Honda experience that they are willing to share?
the advantage of him being -2 isnt so much that you can punish buttstomp, but you have a normal that comes out on the 3rd frame (c.LP), if he does ANYTHING but a perferctly timed reversal special move that beats it, your c.LP will beat any button he hits.
you can pretty much beat hondas air game with stand HK, the only exception to this is if he does j.HP, hes going to want to to it at a range where he can also empty jump without getting uppercutted (but hell get uppercutted if he does the j.HP), control this range.
I’ve asked this question before to and I feel you man. It’s VERY frustrating when you’re playing vs a Honda with a good wakeup mixup game.
One thing I’ve found is to block the first hit of buttsmash, then FA the second hit on his way down. Unfortunately the charge isin’t long enough to crumble but it will but you both at square 1 instead of having to guess.
But the most ideal thing is to not be put into the buttsmash position obviously.