Was making one of these myself then I check forum and your’s is much further ahead than mine so figure I would just mention anything I find here.
-necalli’s disc’s guidance isn’t punishable at MAX range with LK, and for closer ranges you can do cr.MP instead for a bit more damage
Some preliminary work on Alex, I’ll put together the full thing and add it to the top post at some point.
HK- always punishable with super, LK xx tatsu works but might be out of reach.
Sweep- Ryu’s sweep will punish at all ranges I’ve found, EX tatsu and super will work just like against every other sweep.
Chop
All meterless versions punishable by super at any spacing, can punish with LK xx tatsu from close range. EX version completely safe.
Elbow slash
All meterless versions safe from super if spaced to max range. From anything closer than absolute max range super will punish. LK xx tatsu works close range. I think EX version is always punishable by cr.HP but I haven’t tested that well yet.
Stomp
MP xx MK tatsu for meterless, though you can do HP DP instead for a bit of extra damage or to combo into super. EX version is safe.
Awesome thread thanks
Sorry I was slow getting to Alex. Finally managed to get around to it. Planning to jump right in on Guile when he drops, which I assume will happen in the next few days.
Alex
[details=Spoiler]
Introducing a new category here. At some point I might revise other characters to match where applicable but don’t count on it happening tomorrow.
Technically punishable but never gonna happen, just including it to be thorough.
cr.mk- If they do it point blank then light or EX DP will punish, not super. There’s no reason they would ever do that though.
HP- If they don’t cancel it (which they always will) and they’re also at point blank range then light or EX DP will punish, super will not.
Now the practical stuff.
cr.HP- Combos starting with cr.HP will punish from any range, from point blank you can do MP, cr.HP for extra damage.
HK- There is a small space at 1.8 blocks where this move is safe against reversal super. From 1.7 block or closer reversal super punishes. From 1.4 blocks or closer lk xx mk tatsu will punish.
cr.HK- Ryu’s own sweep will reliably punish at any range. EX tatsu and super will both work if you want to spend meter for more damage or to push him away.
f+MP- At max range this overhead is safe from super. From .8 blocks or closer super will punish. From .4 blocks or closer LK xx MK tatsu will punish.
Flash Chop
LP and HP chop can be spaced for safety from super, I couldn’t find a safe spacing for MP chop. From closer ranges LK xx tatsu becomes available as a punish. Stronger versions of flash chop move Alex forward more, so they are punishable from farther away. Spacings listed by version below.
LP- 1.4 blocks safe from super, 1.3 blocks punishable by super, 1 block LK punishes
MP- Always punishable by super, 1.3 blocks LK punishes
HP 1.8 blocks safe against super, 1.7 blocks super punishes, 1.5 blocks LK punishes
EX Flash Chop is completely safe on block.
Slash Elbow
LK- safe from super at max range. Punishable by super at 1.8 blocks. Punishable by LK at 1.5 blocks.
MK- safe from super at max range. Punishable by super at 2.8 blocks. From 2.3 block or closer cr.MK xx tatsu or HP DP will punish. Due to pushback MP and cr.HP will not reach at any range. Max damage from 2.3 blocks or closer is reversal HP DP xx super.
HK- From max range safe against super. From 3.5 blocks punishable by super. From 3 blocks sweep will punish. No other normals will punish, either too slow or don’t reach due to pushback.
EX- Always punishable by super, EX tatsu or HK. If you’re any closer than fullscreen you can use HK, LK xx HP DP, or if you have V trigger then cr.HP xx V trigger, HK combos.
Stomp
All meterless versions can always be punished with LK xx tatsu or reversal super. Depending on how high Alex is when he makes contact higher damage punishes may be available but it’s hard to spot in a match so I recommend sticking to what always works. Potential higher damage punishes include reversal HP DP, MP x HP DP or HP xx tatsu but at very particular spacings these will not work.
EX version is completely safe on block
Critical Art
Due to strange hitboxes during Alex’s recovery MP, cr.HP will not work. Use combos starting with HK or cr.HP xx V-trigger activation.[/details]
Is Rassenha safe if space out, sometimes i try to DP through it and it is blocked
Thanks for pointing that out, I looked into it a bit more and found some interesting stuff. I’ll go ahead and add this to Karin’s write-up.
If they do HP Ressenha at a range of 3.5 blocks it is still -4, but MP DP will not reach on its first active frame so it won’t punish in time. If they don’t do either follow up you can still punish with LK or super, but the command grab flip will dodge over the LK or super creating a mix up situation. Stand jab will beat both of the follow ups, but whiffs short if they don’t do any follow up giving them an opportunity to whiff punish your jab. So I wouldn’t call it safe exactly, but you don’t have a clear punish scenario at that specific range.
The light and medium versions of Ressenha can also be spaced to make MP DP whiff, but those versions are at least -5 against a standing opponent and HP DP’s longer reach allows you to reliably punish them regardless of spacing.
So if they do medium or light Ressenha then punish with HP DP, if they do HP and don’t space it perfectly punish with MP DP. If they do HP and space it perfectly then I recommend hitting LK if you don’t think they’ll do the command grab and LP if you think they will. Both will beat the slide.
I should also note that all of this is based on blocking a Ressenha from a standing position. Ressenha has a lot of active frames so if they knock you down and you wake up into the later active period of Ressenha it becomes completely safe on block.
Just saw this thread. Stopping in to say great job getting all this together.
Thanks! It’s been a bigger task than I thought it would be but I enjoyed it a lot.
Just thought of another little oversight about Karin and added it in
This isn’t exactly a punish but I think it’s worth pointing out that if you do reversal super after the first two hits of Guren Ken then it loses to the command grab flip, but beats every other option including chasing down the quick retreat. So it’s essentially a 50/50 with the balance of damage massively in your favor.
Gonna get right on it this time around, here’s Guile.
Guile
[details=Spoiler]
Impractical: If for some reason you block cr.MK at point blank you can punish with light DP or EX DP. Shouldn’t ever come up though.
More of a whiff punish but worth mentioning: f+HP and df+HK are both safe if you are standing up and block them, but if you’re crouching they whiff over you giving you a chance to punish them.
f+LK/b+LK- The bazooka knee is safe on block at it’s absolute farthest range at about 1 block, anything closer than that is punishable by LP DP. If you’re at .5 blocks or closer then you can use MP, cr.HP combos for a max damage punish.
f+MP- Guile’s overhead is completely safe at max range, about .8 blocks. From .6 blocks or closer super will punish. From .4 blocks you can punish with LK xx tatsu, and at point blank you can make it LK xx heavy DP instead for extra damage.
HP- This move can always be punished by reversal super or LK. Unfortunately at longer ranges if you cancel the LK into meterless tatsu it will whiff, so from max range you either have to spend a bar on LK xx EX tatsu or just stop at LK. From point blank you can use LK xx heavy DP.
cr.HK- Both hits of sweep are a true blockstring, so if you block the first then you’ll have to block the second too. Just as unsafe as every other sweep, Ryu’s own sweep will punish at any range, and EX tatsu or super will also work if you want to spend meter for some more damage.
Target combos
cr.LK, MP, f+HP- After the MP punish with cr.HP. It will punish regardless of if he does the f+HP or not. The same can be said of him just doing MP, f+HP though that might be harder to see coming in time.
cr.MK, f+MP- identical to the f+MP by itself. In retrospect doing LP DP after you see a point blank cr.MK is actually a little useful if people overuse this target combo. It’s not a true blockstring so you can interrupt it that way, and if they’re doing it from too close when it will punish the cr.MK too so they can’t bait it.
All forms of sonic boom seem entirely safe on block that I’ve seen.
Flash kick
Typical crush counter punishes for DP type moves. Careful that you don’t hit HK until he’s on the ground, if you hit it while he’s in the air it will whiff and Guile will land behind you.
Critical Art
On block you can punish with reversal super or heavy tatsu. If you’re in a neutral position when the super freeze happens you can get much larger punishes by avoiding blocking it. You have time to jump over it after the freeze and land a jump in combo, or if Guile does it while you’re standing immediately next to him you can actually just walk forward and push him back, the projectile will miss you entirely giving you lots of time to hit him with the biggest punish combo you’ve got.
When Guile is in V trigger his Critical art becomes safe on block, and also hits a larger area that prevents you from walking through him at point blank. You can still hold up during the freeze and jump out for a punish though. [/details]
Pretty sure that covers it. Let me know if you see anything I’ve overlooked.
Noticed and corrected an oversight, The V trigger version of super becomes safe on block and you can’t just walk through him to push out of range. Gotta jump out.
Can we get this sticky?
Would hate to see a good resource get drowned out by newer threads
Yeah, that’s a good idea. I’m pretty new to these boards, anybody know who I could shoot a message at to make that happen?
Hey, thanks so much for making this!
Cheers.
One cuestion
I don’t understand clearly the term “Point blank” used in the main post, can somebody explain, what it means? Im not a native english speaker.
Amazing post, i will practice.
it means in your opponent’s face
Point blank means at the closest possible distance, with you being pushed directly up against the other character.
Thanks for asking. If there’s any other phrasing I use that is confusing I’d be glad to hear about it. For future characters I’ll try to avoid idioms to make it easier on folks who speak other languages.
Gonna be a busy weekend! Anybody out there have any preference on if I should do Ibuki or Balrog first? I’m hoping to get both of them done within a week after they’re out.
Balrog
[details=Spoiler]
HP- punishable by super if he does it from as close as possible, completely safe if there is any distance at all between him and Ryu. Not practical
cr.HP- Always punishable by super. Looks like an anti-air though, so you’re not likely to ever block it on the ground. EDIT: boy was I wrong. It leads into a lot of his biggest damage combos. They’ll usually be cancelling it into something though, either a dash upper that is way more unsafe or V trigger which I think is completely safe, so not a lot to do here.
cr.HK- from max range punishable with Critical art and EX tatsu. Make sure to get reversal EX tatsu, if you do it a bit late it drops hits and loses a lot of damage. Punishable by sweep from 1 block or closer.
MK->MP Target combo- Any attack 6 frames or faster will interrupt any of his follow up moves and will also punish if he just stops. I suggest cr.HP xx DP or tatsu. You can get more damage with MP, cr.HP xx DP but if he does the V skill into the punch follow-up he will be farther away and MP, cr.HP will whiff.
LK->MK->HK Target combo- Everything past the LK is unsafe on block. After you see the MK hit cr.HP in case he stops there, if he hits HK it’s a true block string so your cr.HP won’t happen and now you can punish the HK. You could also just mash DP.
cr.MK->cr.MK Target combo- punishable with cr.HP combos. HP DP is a reliable easy option.
Vskill->punch- safe from super at a very small range from 2.2 to 2.1. Punishable by super from any closer. Punishable by LK from 1.9 or closer.
Vskill->kick- cr.HP combos punish from any range. Can also use Ryu’s target combo if you want something easy.
Dash Punch
light version- safe from critical art at 2.1, punishable by critical art at 2. Punishable by LK xx tatsu at 1.7
medium version- Safe from critical art at 3. Punishable with critical art at 2.9. Punishable by LK xx tatsu at 2.2
heavy version- Safe from critical art at max screen length. Punishable with critical art from any closer. Punishable by LK xx tatsu at 3.
EX version is safe on block
Dash Low
light version- from max range only critical art will punish. punishable by sweep from 2 or closer
medium- max range critical art only. Punishable by sweep from 3.2
heavy- Safe at 4. CA punishable at 3.8 Sweep punishable at 3.5
EX- safe on block
Dash Upper
meterless versions- whiff over you if you’re crouching, easy to whiff punish. If you block it sweep will punish at any range, cr.HP combos from close.
EX doesn’t whiff over crouching character, still punishable by sweep from any range or cr.HP if close.
Turn-Around Punch
All versions that I have tested safe on block
V-Trigger
Balrogs’s special moves appear to be punishable in the same ways, but he can now add 4 additional dash punches to every dash punch that connects with you. The first 3 extra dash punches are safe, the final one is Punishable by critical art, sweep, EX tatsu, standing HK or reversal light tatsu.
So it goes regular dash punch (maybe punishable depending on spacing) -> safe punch-> safe punch -> safe punch -> final punch (very punishable, and you’ll always be pushed to the same spacing)
Critical Art
He’ll be as close as he can get and you’ve got plenty of time, hit him with the biggest thing you’ve got.[/details]
Ibuki
[details=Spoiler]
df+MK (slide)-At max range (1.5) completely safe on block. At 1.2 can punish with LP DP, EX DP or Critical art. From .9 or closer MP, cr.HP will work. Slightly off topic but interesting, she stands up as part of the recovery making Ryu’s HK a very effective whiff punish.
HP- At max range critical art only. 1 block or closer cr.MP xx tatsu or reversal HP DP
cr.HP-Punishable by LP or EX DP when Ibuki is pushed up against you, but it can be cancelled so you probably won’t have a chance to punish it.
HK- safe if you block it, but whiffs over you if you’re crouching and leaves plenty of time for a whiff punish.
f+HK- Critical art won’t punish this, only LP or EX DP or standing jab will punish. If they’re poking with it you can’t punish, but people might do it as a delayed meaty to catch throw techs, backdashes or attempts to jump out so keep an eye out for it.
cr.HK- Same as most sweeps, Critical art and EX tatsu always punish. There’s a small space at about 1.1 where Ryu’s own sweep won’t punish, but if you stand up at this range her sweep doesn’t reach you. From any closer Ryu’s sweep will reliably punish.
LP->MP->HP Target combo- Both the MP and the HP can be punished with cr.MP xx tatsu or DP, and she can’t cancel the HP on block. If they end it with LK instead of HP they’re safe.
MK->cr.HK->HK target combo- The HK will whiff if you’re crouching, so start your punish with cr.HP. The timing is the same regardless of if she does the HK or not.
cr.MP->f+HK target combo- LK xx tatsu will punish from any range where the f+HK connects. If you’re sure they’re close enough use cr.MP instead for more damage.
Kunai
Anything she does on the ground with kunai is safe on block. If she uses the move that throws all of her kunai while in the air that’s safe on block too. If she jumps toward you and throws a kunai she may or may not be safe depending on spacing. Basically if it hits you below the waist she’s safe, if it hits above that then LP DP, EX DP or standing jab will punish, so if she lands within range of those moves and the kunai hit high on Ryu then go for the punish.
Kazekiri (DP)
All meterless versions can be punished with f+HP. They’re not invincible so you don’t get a counter hit.
EX version is invincible, so use your best crush counter punish. Don’t worry about the kunai cancel, she can’t do it if you block.
Raida (hit-grab)
All versions can be punished from any range with HK, LK xx tatsu
Critical Art
If it hits from the absolute max distance (about 3) then only critical art or LK will punish. From even the slightest bit closer you’ve got plenty of time to hit her with your biggest combo.[/details]