so many people are talking about vanilla…i thought you were talking about super. what does abel vs gief in sf4 have to do with sim vs ryu anyway? i guess if we go back to past games and wanted to talk about bad match ups, we could talk hugo vs chun in 3rd strike. i mean that really sucked. is ryu vs sim as bad as that - not even close.
i just thought that sim vs ryu was very hard, much hard than 5.5 - do you guys really think that guile is a tougher match up than dhalsim? for instance, take honda vs ryu - everyone will say that this is in ryu favor by 6-4. this makes sense because it’s very hard for honda to get in but he has massive damage. when ryu does get in on sim, getting a massive damage output is not always a guarantee because sim has tricks he can do to escape. also, i would argue it’s much harder for ryu to get in on sim than it is for honda to get in on ryu.
Will the Ryu players that think Sim-Ryu is 5.5 - 4.5 please update one of the FOUR match up threads with some tips (wasn’t someone supposed to make a final definitive match up thread wtf happened) because this is my toughest most frustrating match up and it does feel like 7-3 for me. Even if I’m patient they just let the timer run out. You guys must know something I don’t know please share it.
I find that people starting off at the game tend to say those things. Look at the trouble new people have with Blanka but that can be fixed by intercepting balls, FAing slides and punishing punishing balls with super. Not to mention a j.lk will stuff Blankas wakeup options when he doesn’t have meter. The ones who whinge like that don’t even know how to block/punish Blankas ultra…well probably a lot anyway.
I think Ryu is a character that is up shit creek with a paddle. He can’t rush down and he doesn’t have any escape tools like Bison. Hes a block in the middle that has to earn his way forward but has the tools to do so. He is just as solid as solid can be, which means Dhalsim is gonna give him grief. I think he would still be up there in a decent position though.
yup, all the ryu haters are back on the attack. i have less faith in the ryu vs fei long match now. i think mago should have won pretty much every round; but he didnt know how to attack ryu (daigo) in the corner. daigo walked backwards straight to the corner in every single round and scored most of his damage off of wakeups and mago mistakes. i still dont get how you are supposed to attack fei…
kind of sucks that there were no guiles, abel, bison, or rogs in this tourny. i would love to see how top abels perform.
and now this thread becomes relative because:
watch everyone scream how ryu is overpowered / how all these other characters need buffs.
i dont see anyone get the same results that daigo gets…but all the ryu players have to suffer because of it :).
Dhalsim vs. Ryu is certainly a hard match. Focusing Dhalsim’s limbs is something I see in tournament play…but Dhalsim’s traps, ultra 1 set-ups, and terribly good anti-airs just rape Ryu. I saw Daigo fight a high level Dhalsim and there wasn’t much he could do…felt kind of bad for him, lol.
Now Dhalsim has U2 and I’ve seen that used against a high level Bison player more than once, so that match should be at least 6 - 4 in my opinion.
Ryu would be a middle to top tier character no matter what, he’s the center piece, he’s got an easy to juggle ultra from several set-ups and good health. He’s got good match-ups and bad match-ups, so I think he’s well balanced.
How about all the tier lists that have been made so far??? Both iplaywinner and the japanese tier lists have this at 6-4. I would say that this means most people seem to agree on this. Why aren’t tier lists evidence?
I also think that this matchup would be rated slightly worse if it wasn’t for daigo being such a badass. Does anyone have any ssf4 (not vanilla) footage of ryu winning this matchup? Where the ryu wasn’t daigo?
Or how about all the times Daigo has lost to Mochi and him saying he just can’t beat him? Alex Valle has beaten Sabin before with those insane ex tatsumakis he likes to do after setting up his throws, but then I have seen Sabin take it with relative ease another time. Fuudo hasn’t beaten Iyo/Mochi.
even if it is 6-4, so what? Dude you make yourself sound like a chump bitching about Ryu having a 6-4… like its impossible or w/e. What about matches where Ryu is at advantage? Do you win those just because the match is so unfair? Its BS, its the player the counts. And there are like 3 matches in which Ryu is at disadvantage… thats far from bad. If in a tournament you faced a Sim and he won itd be fair play . Odds are he woulda had a harder time getting to that stage than Ryu anyway, so if he happens to get a minor advantage in the direct VS match… well… fair play.
look, you are saying the matchup is even or 5.5 for dhalsim. if that is the case, can you please post your strats? i do feel like a chump against good sims because i get beat up pretty badly. even if i win, it’s usually because i was lucky to get inside through a dhalsim mistake - ie he fucks up against my jumping in tatsu, or i get an empty jump LP DP, or maybe a jumping fierce against his mistime back HK (knee).
if you are a ryu user and you think the matchup is even, then it’s because you go 5-5 verse sim players. why dont you post how you are winning?
and the fact that you only thinking ryu has 3 bad matchups is what this thread is all about… i think he has more than 3 bad matches but daigo makes it look otherwise. what three bad matchups are you talking about?
i think ryu has bad matchups against: guile, bison, abel, fei, adon, and rog. but maybe its just that i suck against these characters, and other people that i see post seem to have a hard time against them too…
TBH VS Sim I am just incredibly patient. I basically sit at full screen for half the game and work out their habits (whilst doing some minimal moves like occassional FBs n stuff to keep them thining). Sure they can do some very minor chip damage with fireballs, but if you are patient enough you will eventually see a pattern to their play. Thats when you move in. I cant really say more than that. I mean you know what beats what VS Sim and the general match-up theory. ultimately you have to get in, and to do that their are only 2 real ways. 2) perfect spacing. You basically have to know where to jump from so he cant anti air you without taking a risk (sure the knee and headbutt are insanely awesome but they only reach a certain range. You have to jump to just outside that range). 2) Counter them either with a FB (has to be well timed and spaced) a C.MP or an FA. you only do 1) or 2) once you have a really good idea of your opponents habits, and to get that you kinda have to just walk about a bit lol… you have to make it look like youre trying to get in without actually doing that . Give the impression of pressuring them but do it safely, see what their habits are, and once you have a good idea use one of the counters. thats it . Its half patients and half reading your opponents habits. What youhave to realise is that YES he can kill you with his limbs, but everytime he throws a limb out he is taking a big risk. If you catch a single limb you can get in and once youre in you have a very good chance of taking the round from that 1 attack.
oh n Sims FBs are slower than Ryu’s. You can totally neutralise them. And if Sim cant hit you with fireballs (cause everytime he throw one you do) WTF is he gonna hit you with from distance?
I agree that Ryu is at disadvantage with a lot of those matches you listed btw (Bison, Abel, Adon… not sure about the other three.) But its not a particularly big disadvangate IMO.
EDIT : im wrong about the FB speed. theyre pretty much the same, but you can neutralise them mostly anyway n just block the occassional one.
I had to register just to call out how big of a hypocrite this kid is.
You say that tier lists aren’t evidence (which is true) because they’re based on opinions, then who the fck should give a sht about your opinion?
Honestly I don’t know why anybody even bothers arguing with you, or why you seem to think your opinion matters.
You even state that you ignored one of the other posters in this thread (who seems to have valid points - he goes by facts rather than his “personal experience” and “opinion”) yet quote and reply to him shortly after.
And then you got your signature which describes you exceptionally well.
The only saving grace you possess is that the “2 4 ricky, 2 4 daigo” comment is quite funny - but that’s it.
Anyways, I bid you good day and let the butter commence.
you probably are stupid and dont actually understand what a hypocrit is. If you do, please tell me one single hypocritical comment ive made? Im presuming (and due to your severely lacking mental capacity it is hard to be certain), but im presuming you mean im a hypocrit for saying tier lists arent evidence and then giving my opinion… right? If so, maybe you should read back a little further. BGuile kept asking for facts rather than opinions. I merely said that there are no facts and it all comes down to opinion. Me saying “I want evidence” a lil while back was merely a sarcastic retort for him doing it to me so many times. Guessing you missed that, hey kid?
BGuile was asking for evidence… tier lists are just opinions, as is mine, as is yours… theyre all open for discussion. Now im imagining you fail in social life… heres a tip : conversation works based on people basically bouncing opinions around. I say orange, you say apple, maybe we settle on a pear. Get the idea, kid?
Ive not once said my opinion matters any more or any less than anyone elses, nor does it. This is what you seem to have an issue with, and its a whimsical assumption based on… well, nothing.
I was going to ignore BGuile, yah, for his epic trolling a while back. I changed my mind because as you say, he often does make very good points.
… explain?
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And the fact that I myself, along with what, 4 or 5 others, are the only people who give solid advice. You take me (or one of the other 5) out of the equation you lose about 25% of the content thats here and that isnt just trolling. Anyway, thanks for your opinon but, but given the amount of PMs I recieve a) thanking me for advice that worked. b) asking my opinion on other things, I think imma just keep going as i am and ignore you - you being the person who has not once made an actual contribution to the boards… .
anyway… youre a cock. Youve basically attempted to insult me based on nought but your ignorant whimsical assumptions… and this is the reason you made an account? LOL. The fact that you would make an account to have a go at someone (be it myself or anyone else) truly shows how much of a hater and a loser you are. Anyone with an ounce of dignity would either a) not create an account and just ignore me or b) create an account and use it to aid discussions here.
can someone explain why the cammy vs ryu matchup is 4-6 in ryu favor? daigo vs sako: cammy didnt seem to have an inherent disadvantage - sako had no problem getting in against daigo…
what do you guys think the results would be of valle vs sako?