i didnt say they beat daigo because the match is 7-3. i said that the match is 6-4 when daigo plays it, but when other players who are not as strong as daigo play it, it’s worse than that. i dont know definitively if the match is 7-3 or not, but i know it’s not even or 5.5 as you were stating.
did you see the matches vs sabin? you never responded as to why you thought that sabin didnt beat himself…
you didnt respond to your statement about how daigo counterpicked ryan’s ryu… i dont know why you think this.
did you see the matches vs mochi? did they seem remotely even? also, you didnt respond to which are the “real” 7-3 matches? you said i need to play a “real” 7-3 match and get back to you. that was after i already said i was playing the t.hawk vs ryu… which match should i try to make it “real”?
what matches amongst the really good ryu players are you referring to where the match is even -> i.e.: the non-daigo matches where dhalsim gets “raped”. i have no problem with daigo losing and i understand he is not invincible, but i dont see what that has to do with using him as reference?
you said it is 5.5 because of your own experience and i have seen your replays on you tube. maybe you can post some of your sim replays, to help out people like me :).
Is it possible for you to go a single day without being a douche? Youre refering to my replays uploaded by other players when they beat me and of which the most recent was like 5 months ago. doubtlessly if I bothered to upload my own shit youd see some wins too. ANyway…
Imma make this simple. You bitched without reaon in the hado thread. youre bitching here. Sooooo… Im adding you to my ignore lost because you are a tool.
lol. so upload your raping of sim players. :). i dont know what you are getting so excited about, i wasnt stating anything regarding your play.
you just seem to get angry if anyone questions where you get your stuff from. if you think it’s an even matchup, then you are going against the grain of the majority of other ryu players. you say the reason for this is your personal experience -> then you flip out when i ask you to upload a replay :).
you say daigo counterpicked ryan’s ryu. but i’m the bad guy for asking why you think this, when everyone else has said he thought ryan was going to pick sim.
the only thing i am trying to say is that imo, daigo single handedly changes the tier list for ryu.
i was curious if other people thought that. you seem to be going in the other direction in stating that while most people say ryu vs sim is 6-4, you seem to think it’s even.
^ nah dude, just like in the hado thread where you had to make sarcastic reference to my name, here youre saying i have replays online where i lose… so fucking what?! Seems you have to take a personal stab at me whenever I disagree with you, its just immature n stupid n i aint got time for it. Oh, and the fat that im disagreeing with you doesnt mean im angry… looool.
Daigo is largely responsible for Ryu’s placing in tier lists yes, but that doesnt make Sim - Ryu a 7-3. And saying its 5.5-4.5 is not an even match-up. Thats just my opinion. I think Ryu has enough tools to prevent the sim match from being as bad as 7-3. Hes fast moving, can counter Sims pokes, can FB from the right range and can rape Sim when he does finally get in. Thats just my opinion. The fact that my opinion disagrees with yours is no reason to throw in personal remarks… seriously… you might benefit from ettiquette lessons.
lol. i didnt say you had replays online where you lose. i said you have replays online. i didnt even watch them all to know if you win or lose -> nor do i even care. all i did was ask you to back up some of the things you stated, and you’re panties bunched up.
And how exactly do my replays correlate to the advantage / disadvantages of the match? how is that *possibly * relevant?
Anyway… you really are immature. YOU are the one who started throwing personal insults, both here and in the hadoken thread,. yet “my panties bunched up…” ? Seriously… grow up.
If im angry it is simply because i have a distinct dislike for idiocy, and you are full of it.
The Ryu vs Sim does feel like 7-3 for me, but I know very little about the match up. I will see in the future as
I grow as a player how this match up feel.
I remember thinkink Balrog was a 7-3 for him and now honestly I think its 6-4 for Ryu for a top player. For me now it feel
like a 5-5 at least.
All the trouble displayed by Daigo vs Sims make me think its at least 6-4 for Sim. He played some incredibly inventive and
resourssefull Street fighter vs Mochi and still lost in a best of 10. Honestly I am not sure… we will have to ask Daigo.
then why isnt ken getting buffed…no one plays him anymore. And on topic. Daigo is a cyborg thats why he beasts with ryu…I swear he has got some augmentations
Rose is the only character I use. Sagat vs. Rose was always an awful matchup for me, but I didn’t realize it was 8-2. I always assumed it was 7-3 by merits I can gain meter off his fireballs… sort of. Sagat vs. Gief / Honda, from what I heard, was more 8-2, since they really had no reliable way to get in through his tank-like fireball game.
Sorry, don’t mean to almost threadjack, but I am curious how people differentiate beteween 8-2 and 7-3.
they are both just different ways to say “this matchup is impossible”. in vanilla rose did zero damage and had no way to get sagat off her the moment she was knocked down. all slides are stuffed by s.lk xx TU, you can’t win the fireball war, reflecting his shots is very difficult due to shitty reflect hitbox, tiger knee pressure beats ex spiral, sagat has 150 more health than you, etc. you could miss a 1f link into c.mp and eat a counterhit TU, which did more damage than rose’s biggest no-meter punish anyways so the odds were always in sagat’s favor.
i also played honda in vanilla and both of them had a nightmarish time vs sagat. at least honda did fat damage when he did get in and could punish hard.
it’s no surprise he’s always been a solid character across the franchise’s installments (his advantageous matchups aren’t free, and his awful matchups aren’t impossible), seeing as how capcom usually begins their balancing with ryu as the center-piece. when i first started playing sf4 competitively it was easy for my friends to ascribe matches i won to ryu’s position in the tier list. little did i know that ryu is considered top tier not because he has advantages against everyone ranked lower than him, but because most of his matchups break even. ryu’s a solid character, but he has to put in to win like anyone else
for instance, if you look at the iplaywinner matchup lists -> they have a lot of ryu matchups as even, that are probably only even for a guy like daigo.
fei doesnt feel even; when i watch even the best ryu players fight this matchup, they have a lot of trouble.
why is adon vs ryu even too? no safejump off of sweep, no fireball zoning, no real ground attacks because of jag kicks, etc… again daigo makes this matchup much closer because he can capitalize to the maximum extent on every punish.
when i look at the iplaywinner list, it seems like a daigo list more than ryu list. it definitely isnt taking into account US tournaments, where ryu gets beat up hard by bison. etc…
rssnake: in abel gief, most people say that it’s even or 4-6. i dont play abel, so i couldnt tell you either way; but is this one of the “real” 7-3 matchups?
^ I dont know why the Adon match is 5-5. Might be missing something, but to me, his ability to spam Jag Kicks (to which there is no answer except SRK if they do it from the right spacing. I tested the shit out of this and there simply is no reliable answer)… anyway yah, Jag Kicks are just horrid and as you say, once you get him down you cant jump on him. so yah I agree, Adon to me does not feel like a 5-5. Perhaps it is at the top of play ability but for 99% of Ryu users Id say Adon is a nightmare.
Abel / Gief : this match was just sick in vanilla, totally horrid. In super its not as bad cause Abel is basically just a god like character in this version, but in Vanilla it definately was a “true” 7-3. Shit was just plain nasty.
There are amazing players besides Daigo… Like, really really fucking good. To us, Daigo is the most visible. It’s one reason I look forward to evo japan. I want to see people giving Daigo hell when he’s playing at the top of his game. Yeah, justin does that when he’s playing his real game. But he hasn’t been able to definitively put the beast down yet as far as I’ve seen.
I have some amount of faith in capcom. Apparently, they have some extremely competitive players on their development staff that eschew going to tourneys. Or so I heard. (Think it was in a Seth interview.) They have to have some real idea of the consequences of their changes. I don’t believe that they enslave themselves to tier lists of any sort.
Am I happy with everything they’re doing? Not really. But it’s the nature of the beast… (No pun intended.) Just unfavorable situations that you have to recognize and work with.
I have 3 other fighting games I’m interested in. Only reason I’m interested in those fighting games at all is because of a single character I’ve chosen to be my main in each. In street fighter, the equivalent character for me is ryu. I’m not sure I’d be interested in the game anymore if he is no longer competitive to at least some degree. (Essentially, Daigo would have to drop him entirely for this to be the case.) I wouldn’t be willing to move to another main. (Well…maybe makoto…)
If that happens, then oh well. I have these other games. But I just can’t see that happening. This isn’t third strike… (Yet.)
You go to a tournament and you can’t choose who you face. (Well, they might be nice enough to not put you next to your hometown crew.) You could easily get knocked out in round 2 via the 1st and 2nd place finishers. It’s unfair. It’s bullshit. And it’s awesome. It’s competition. There’s no use complaining. No reason to stress yourself over what you can’t control. That’s how I feel about these changes as well.
Not saying it’s impossible to revert some changes if you make enough of a ruckus. But there’s too many unknowns for me to get behind that, personally.