It’s not that difficult. You’re linking the dp, so it’s like hit confirming to a sweep or c.hp. Not taking anything away from daigo, just saying you should try it.
[quote=“bguile, post:198, topic:110660”]
Heres what you wrote
Abel does not get all his damage by getting inside. Abel does all his damage once he is inside. I assumed thats what you meant. Abel does all his damage off a guess once he is inside
Here is my response
To which you responded something like this
Which aint true
This is what I have said
This is what you quoted to show that Im argueing w/ myself
Try to pay attention the the bolded parts so as not to get confused. I didnt think it would be so easily confusable but like I said, I must have overestimated your cognitive ability. I understand now.
heres the rest
Im sure most people following will figure out which one of these I believe is the case seeing how I see the match-up as even. But now that I am aware of you unfortunate genetic disability I will cut you some slack and spell it out for you. I believe that Ryu can keep Abel out when played properly and its not a matter of subpar tools. If Abel does get in all is not lost, since the only difference between Abel and most everyone else, is that he has a command throw. Luckily for Ryu, he happens to have not only an anti-throw special, it also doubles for an anti strike as well. Unfortunate for Ryu, it will be punished hard if he guesses wrong. Unfortunate for Abel, TT will be punished hard for guessing wrong. Your welcome.
edit:
and one more to help you overcome your disability. Following a move that left you at -2 would require a pause of 2 frames to bait out a DP safely. Following a move that left you at +3 would require a pause of 7 frames. Astonishing isnt it?
Whaaat ? No way!!! Its a bad matchup for Dhalsim because once Ryu gets in his damage output far exceeds anything Dhalsim can dish out. All his pokes even leave him at a disadvantage on block because of neg. frames! It is so a bad match up for Dhalsim because the match up is hard! Is english your 1st language?:arazz:
ITT
Tangoblast vs Bguile.
I haven’t read any, but I instantly declare Bguile the winner after reading Tangoblast state that Ryu is a bad matchup for Dhalsim and that Abel doesn’t rape Ryu (just above ^).
Maybe that’s why Daigo, the best Ryu in the world, has trouble against every single Dhalsim player in the world. His only known weak matchup. So weak that he even thought about training cammy just to counter pick.
Gotta love the gibberish going around here.
I usually don’t come to the Ryu subforums, but what I read in other subforums was true.
A guy babbling about 3 characters he doesn’t know shit about, all at the same time, is what I like to call turd juggling. And he’s making a mess.
This is a clusterfuck.
If i were you I wouldnt mention anything about “babbling shit he knows nothing about” Especially after saying "I havent read anything"
Otherwise it might make you look like a fool. Well, scratch that, there is no might to it. You do look like a fool.
If I write the word SHIT for two full pages, will you have to read them all to understand what I said?
I guess not.
Well then you guess wrong. If you want to know why then read those pages full of shit. If you’re content on looking like a fool well then dont. Just know that as of now you look like a fool. One who babbled about something he knows nothing about, because he didnt read.
Sim is definaely at advantage VS Ryu. Abel…? Personally I thinik he has a slight advantage too, like 5.5 - 4.5. but thats no a big deal.
And there is too much BS on these pages, but I know that aint gonna stop so ill just shut up.
I personally think the matchup is 6.5-3.5 in sims favor. Only sim consistently gives daigo trouble. Ryan harts sim, arturos sim, filipino champs sim, mochis sim. Low execution character, so they’re combos have a small drop rate while ryu has to really work hard to get in, and use wild tactics. Had daigo lost to tokido, I’m pretty sure that Tokido would of won the tourny, but Daigo is so good he makes the matchup seem much closer.
I totally agree. The sim matchup is not “slightly” in sims favour, its more than that.
edit: NVM Im spending way to much time posting. Only reason I started all of a sudden was because someone said I was stifling discussion. Turns out doing the opposite is BS. I’ll just go back to reading. Thats where I’ve learned the most. and no this aint no sympathy post.
It’s pretty even, 5.5-4.5 at worst.
The fact that ryu can’t bull dog sim into playing “his” type of game as easy as he can the rest of the cast is what makes it Look like it’s in sim favor. People are use to seeing ryu dictate the pace of his matches. Also it takes a speical type of player to play and use sim effectivly.
When you think about it the players that beat dagio’s ryu are either the thinkers or the very aggressive players.
All in all it’s pretty much even if sim gets cornered at any point he can
Lose more than 40% in a matter of seconds.
^ I have to agree with the 5.5-4.5 it really is not that bad a match-up, and you cannot use Daigo, one single Ryu player, as a judge of the match-up. i dunno why Ryus (including Daigo) arent a lot more patient in this match.
Oh and regarding the whole Abel BS. Abel isnt a hard match-up for Ryu because of damage output alone (though he does have good damage output). Hes got sick mix-ups, can apply hella pressure, isnt too bad in footsies, and has F.MK, which IS a great move and is not the same as a sodding jab (think it was compared to a jab earlier… ?)… seriously. I mean I dont even know how someone could think that. o_0
the reason i think the sim matchup is so ridiculous is because what would happen if you took daigo out the equation here?
daigo makes this match look much closer than it is.
when daigo gets in he has the ability to kill sim with one large group of attack sequences - but do you think any other ryu players could do that. daigo wasnt missing any links vs champ. the commentators werent talking about it, but as ryu players i am sure everyone here knows how hard some of the links he was landing are. not to mention perfect hit confirms on his frame traps. daigo was consistently landing cr.LP, cr.MK, etc…
you have to give it to champ though, the guy has great defense. also, he had some nice mixups on sims ultra. champ is definitely the best sim player in the states. also, seems like daigo didnt have an answer for yoga tower.
c.lk XX f+lk+hp OS would be interesting. I’d be wary of doing f+lk+hp~lp since that seems like it might end up kara-ing into a throw when the first lk whiffs. If it doesn’t…that would be even more interesting. As far as I know, throws have priority over command normals. In any case, any kind of plinking into a throw tech hasn’t been proven viable and just seems so unlikely to work for me.
A blocked step kick gives you momentum. It can do this by interrupting the defender’s game plan at that moment. The attacking abel is in a better position as they are more aware that a step kick was attempted, exactly when that was, and what was a likely result. They have a clearer picture of the state of the game at that instant.
It’s the same concept that makes c.lp…walk up a couple frame…c.lp, or whatever, viable. Walking up gets rid of your slight frame advantage and can easily put you at negative. But it can work because you are aware of the state of the game just a little bit more than your opponent since they were previously locked down in block stun and couldn’t attempt an action. That a character can bring about this state from a good range is advantageous. f+hp could do similarly for ryu, except that… 1) It’s a much slower poke. 2) He has no immediate anticipatory punishment for if the defender chooses to wait for a followup attack or techable throw attempt.
Abel has a tool that can catch a blocking opponent at any instant with no chance to tech. Reversal dps aren’t as good a defensive option as blocking and teching. That there is something that makes blocking and sanely teching dangerous is significant. That there is a similar punishment for a blocked/whiffed dp as there is for a whiffed TT is not wholly relevant as you do not judge your options solely on the possible punishments for them. A defender’s reversal dp is just not as good an option as an attacker’s quick command grab. You have more ways to setup the landing of that grab via various kinds of ticks that can double as escape punishes. You have the capability to add slight pauses to catch quick reversals without necessarily losing momentum.
Momentum is important. And it is not only derived from a good, or slight, frame advantage.
I don’t understand why you saw it necessary to make the point of “The zoning failed before he landed the step kick not after.”
Perfect zoning is usually impossible. The game does not come down solely to who is able to out-zone who. Just because there is a strong zoning element, that doesn’t mean you can ignore what happens when one side can’t manage to beat the other before they get in.
Yes, it is an extremely important element of many matchups. But the assumption is that the attacker can eventually get in. Even the best zoner in the game, dhalsim, has to assume that an attacker can get in and deal with it. (Unless it’s a 7-3 matchup or something.) The attacker does this by taking various risks that usually get countered for some damage. But the attacker has to take those risks. And the damage isn’t always enough to finish it before they succeed. Sometimes it is, but when it isn’t the dhalsim’s talents at getting away are put to the test. That is how they attempt to balance the game between characters with different effective ranges.
And yeah, this forum shit wastes too much time sometimes. You just gotta give it a rest once a while. I shouldn’t even be posting right now, but I don’t make very good decisions with my time.
Because if you are too patient, dhalsim’s fireballs will eventually wear you down. So then you’re 15% down against dhalsim with 45 seconds left and barely any meter. What do you do?
This is a kind of matchup where I think you absolutely HAVE to take significant risks. The best dhalsims will punish you for being overly careful just as easily as they punish for being overly aggressive. But at least with being aggressive you’re building meter and creating some opportunity for damage once in a while.
^ you have to take risks, yeah, but I see Ryu’s jumping n shit before they have a read of the Sim’s game. IMO its much better to sit back and try to get some idea of your opponent’s playstyle before taking those risks. If you have to block a few FBs then so be it. Id rather garner all info I can on the Sim before taking a risk. Guess its just different playstyles.
Sim cant punish you for being defensive Theli. Whats he gonna do? FBs chip, sure, but no big deal. they’re not gonna teleport to you to try n get some chip damage (unless theyre stupid). The one real loss is in space because you will get pushed back a bit. Personally I dont mind that too much though, its still the same game. With 1 knockdown from anywhere on the screen you can potantially win the match, so I trade a little damage and some space for info on the opponent’s game.
Dhalsims definitely shouldn’t teleport unless they’re absolutely desperate or are completely sure to punish something.
FB chip does add up. And then you get stuck in the corner. Any attempts out of that are punished even more easily. So you just sit there blocking? You aren’t necessarily going to learn much of anything of value by being stuck in that corner feeding them free meter.
Is it really just a question of playstyles? I don’t know. It just seems like a good instinct that gets you to take the most opportunity of the time you have available, right from the start, to try various attempts of getting in. At least in this one particular match-up.
A dhalsim that’s worked long and hard enough to cut out as many flaws as possible in their game plan will gladly take the time to lame you out as simply as possible. With say…3-4 pokes done purely randomly keeping you mostly locked down, what can you really learn?
Sim chips for the most part with yoga faya, so blocking ain’t that bad, you can backdash if you want. so yeah, i quote darth. try to get as much as you can of your opponents playstyle. then try some risky stuff…but at the end of the day (yes i said that HA!) every move has its own risk, so no big deal, GET IN THAT ARSE !
darth, you already have a ton of data on spacing.
maybe you have some notes on the spacing that you can jump in on sim? for instance is there a proper distance where the hitbox of j.HP will beat sim’s knee - back HK? is there an ambiguous distance where empty jump will work?
i have tried some different things in the training room, but i dont have anything definitive?
can someone explain the frame data for yoga TOWER? on the wiki, it only has recovery=120, but it looked like daigo didnt have nearly that much time to punish it.