im definitely gonna spend sometime on training mode… especially trying out the c.mk against Messia kicks…
i played couple of matches against Rufus again… the match up wasn’t as bad as the first time… i absolutely stopped jumping on Rufus, unless its necessary… (because of the Messia kicks, Snake Hands, and J. double HK , which can be followed by Ultra)
i pretty much treated it like the Zangeif match (again i rarely jump on Geif because of his ridiculous twirl…) staying away and keeping distance…
the funny thing he kept trying to gain ground and catch up to me with the Tornado spin (since it can counter my Sparks) but that left him predictable… and also was jumping over my soul sparks then dive kick…
not as hard as before… but still so much to explore… (i will have to play Rufus myself)
Hey all; I’m just here to let you know of a new training system myself and Illwill79 have divised.
In this training program, we have regular tournaments, a mIrc chat room, a dedicated sub-forum for feedback on matches and several players who record matches.
The training program is strictly for dedicated players. You dont have to be the best (though we do have several strong players) you just have to be dedicated.
If you would be interested in joining this new program, please see the OP of this thread :
Rufus can be a pain to deal with as most players are so in your face it’s like a make-out session with none of the good bits involved! I tend to find that switching from turtle to attack and back again causes mass confusion as they’re not always too sure what the hell you’ll do.
Don’t Ultra when he divekicks, I’ve eaten that far too much. I must admit, I play best against Rufus when I start to zone the shit out of them. Being Rose, it’s a lot harder to mixup and annoy than say… a shoto, but isn’t that just the fun of using Rose?
Gen’s a kettle of fish I end up playing a lot… I’ve fought quite a few Gen’s and his crossup game can be very annoying… but:- in Crane most Gen’s will rely on Crossover mk, c.wk. Block the wk and ride Gen like a horse outta town!
Hey guys, I need a little help here. I’m working on a big compendium of meaty options and option-selects for Zangief that I need some peer review on. Gonna make a video on it soon, but I wanna make sure that there’s nothing wrong or missing on it. If you can find something wrong with this section or something new I haven’t thought of, PM it to me and I’ll put your name in the video’s credits! Here you go (and if there are any terms you don’t understand, check that link out for clarification):
Rose
-----Best meaty: Safe jump splash either side cr. jab; Cr. jab
----------Ex drill: Block; Block
----------Antiair grab: Whiffs over; Whiffs over
----------Super: Block; Block
----------Ultra: Block; Block
----------Backdash: Escapes; Escapes
----------Focus attack: Loses to jab; Loses to jab
----------Focus backdash: Loses to jab; Escapes
-----Best meaty on quick stand: #2
-----Post-throw
----------Neutral throw: Regular/short empty jump cr. short or regular/short safe jump splash cr. jab
----------Regular spd: Jab hand over
----------Ex spd: Walk up safe jump splash cr. jab
----------360k: Step toward regular/short empty jump cr. short or regular/short safe jump splash cr. jab
-----Grounded jab o-s sweep: No
-----Ex spd useful: No, doesn’t give better option
-----Best ways to punish
----------Ex drill: Ultra, fierce spd
----------Antiair grab: Cr. short xx ex hand, lariat, jab spd
----------Super: Ex hand or punch lariat on reaction; safe on block
----------Ultra: Ex hand or jump on reaction; dash 720 or 360k if close enough on block, ex hand if farther, safe if too far
-----Comments:
Understand some things , Dont really understand others!
I dont know if it can be useful, but since Zangief is a throw-type character, all Zangief players must know about throw invincibility of Rose standing close MK. If u already know, act as I never say something.
What u re trying to do it’s really huge so good work!
i played against a really (arguably extremely) good Abel… i didnt expect to face problems with able… yet i lost… his ultra went right through my sparks… and also his EX wheel kick… i never seem to anticipate his tornado grab, he threw me everytime like a ragdoll…
…
Abel crossup is so ridiculous… i hate it…
any general advice against able ?
is it possible to Ultra during his signature combo on block (i think QCF+P, f+p, f+p or can be mixed up with f+k) ??
air to air j.mk (rose) VS j.mk (abel) ? (i think rose loses this one i should probably go for j.HP)
Was it |-|AV, mm9999? Those are two good Abel players I know right off, Hav is better imooo. The latter guy I’ve only played once, and he beat me at the end of a fight because I messed up my dizzy combo and then he het me with THREE wheel kicks in a row, two of them EX, since I was trying to get away and turtle.
You should just know that sparks aren’t safe when he has ultra. Don’t try it.
If he’s close and you expect a normal grab, command grab or EX grab, your close MK will beat all of them. Yeah, you can reversal ultra the last rekka on block, but it’s probably not nearly fast enough to punish the first/second hit. Somebody confirm that?
I don’t really use j.MK as air to air. I can’t really picture what Abel’s j.mk is at the moment, but j.HK/HP are probably better.
As for general advice, sparks are good so long as he doesn’t have ultra. You can go for crossups on him, too. If he’s rushing you, you’ll probably have to predict whether he’s going to jab/throw. Options to use in these situations are c.MK (loses to jab), EX spiral (punishable on block), backdash (low risk, low reward)
If his f+MK whiffs, you can ultra it on reaction. That move recovers pretty slow iirc without the cancel.
sc.mk won’t beat it, but it’ll keep you from being thrown (since EX version has hit invincibility). also I would probably back dash as a standard tactic at least after a blocked cross-up since you might get the far s.mk instead which isn’t throw safe by any means. and yes abel’s grab has more range than your close s.mk.I suppose neutral jump after blocked cross-up is viable too.
if you’re running away, it sounds like you’re throwing a lot more sparks than what I feel would be safe. it seems like abel will want you to throw sparks since they’re slow inward and outward, and he can easily roll into throw, wheel kick, EX Rekka etc. One day I decided to use spiral in place of spark in this match up and I didn’t feel so hopeless anymore.
well despite how derailing it would be… nevermind. gonna PM you instead.
Anyway, Abel along with Rufus is one of those matches I take up close and personally since he’s quicker than Zangief (but without a lariat, thankfully) so I keep sparks to a minimum really; unless I have a life lead and he lacks ultra. then it’s keep away city. same can’t be said about Bison however.
But just comparing the total frames of all sparks to total frames of all spirals, you maintain pressure, damage, and excel in mobility (to bypass rolls and wheel kicks) using spirals from proper distances. the one worry being getting thrown/hit out of spiral which requires more reactivity on Abel’s part. Abel’s no pushover by any means, but People: don’t confine your play style to run away tactics the entire round when it could very well be your undoing.
*I play against a pretty good abel semi regularly when I do play and while I lose the majority of times against him, against other abel players I feel I have the edge. I actually prefer taking it to abel since he has such a weak wakeup game with no real reversals and can be thrown out of roll on startup. A nice little trick I like doing is faking a meaty slide on his wakeup and timing it so that I recover as he’s waking so I can standing close medium kick him out of command throw. You can mix up when you want to pressure him and when you want to pester him, specially if you have a good grasp on her forward roundhouse and far standing fierce range. You can far standing Fierce/F. HK him if he tries to roll past your sparks at about 3/4ths screen same for if he tries to hop over it.
Also be weary of his crouching fierce resets. He can C. Fierce xx Roll, C. Fierce xx roll into command throw when you land. Getting hit by that takes about 45 percent health from Rose if it connects. Backdash as soon as you land if you get hit by the first two C. Fierce xx roll’s because I tried numerous times to mk him out the command throw to no avail. I even tried reproducing it in training mode and I still couldn’t do it. *
I couldnt punish Headbutt, even with f.hk on block. Honda c.lp beat slide and c.mp…
The honda i faced simply went forward, block those spark, crounching every second to block if i attempt to poke him. Once i’m in corner, he prevent me from getting away with some j.hp, tick ochio, c.lp c.hk…
And if i ever jump at him, i eat a headbutt. Basically, the honda simply had to be ready to tech/use OST to prevent me from damaging him.
Plus, once he have ultra, i must be very carefull of my spark, or he’ll dash ultra :`\
I recommend keeping your distance and don’t use slide as an approach too much. Go for cross-ups frequently after a knock down to screw up his ability to charge.
Honda has a very limited way of getting past fireballs, namely butt splash, jumping, or ultra/super; which would be an amazing waste. but it might be effective if you don’t have meter of your own to punish, or it actually hits you. try setting up traps with spiral or soul throw to follow up sparks.
The most important thing about chasing your fireball is that it really prevents honda from absorbing them since Rose has such range. but again, watch out for butt splash and jump ins.
Ok, my turn although it’s more than likely been said before… but out of all the characters that I have problems with it’s Sakura (Although I’m working my way around those horrible tatsu-traps) and mainly, well… Rufus.
I finally hit G2-A after knuckling down and doing my best to steamroll through people but between Rufus and a certain Zangief I seem to end up facing, I hit a brick wall. The Zangief only needs one opening of the tiniest measure and he’s SPD’d Rose’s poor head into the floor and as for the Rufus?
If I have to meet many more multi-Falcon Kicking happy Rufus’s… well, I’ll go postal! Help with Rufus?
You can EX soul throw Rufus out of his dive kick shenanigans, or FADC back to get away from pressure. Also a neutral jump hp will stop him from getting away with it as well.
Sakura can be tricky but once you know what they are looking for just try and not leave yourself in a position to be EX tatsu’d. If you’re not sure you pull of a link with your combo’s or are shaky in your execution just keep it simple with c.mp, drill punishment or a simple lp, lp, lk then stop to see if they are mashing for reversal then punish if they are. Every Sakura player is trying to land EX tatsu when they have meter so know that and be aware of it. Sakura crumbles under pressure. So bring the fight to her and try to pile it on thick. Rose’s standing mk will stuff a lot of what Sakura can do offensively and she has very poor AA options and she is extremely vulnerable to crossup antics.
Zangief you generally want to keep the fight at just out of sweep range and poke and FB him to get him to try and jump or lariat. If he does either that’s your cue to punish. F+hk will stuff lariat and he is practically soul throw bait in the air. Rose’s j.hp stuffs lariat for free so you may want to use j.hp in the match up instead of j.mk if you attempt a jump in on him. Just give him the run around and wear him down. Don’t try any combos you are not absolutely 100% sure you can pull off against him or you will eat a SPD, then it’s a guessing game to get back to your feet.
(again i rarely jump on Geif because of his ridiculous twirl…) staying away and keeping distance…
Help with Rufus?