I don’t like walking up and blocking, I like walking up and neutral jumping, which is what the Kus does as well. Yeah, I’ll block sometimes if my reactions aren’t fast enough to respond to a projectile or I didn’t predict it correctly, but obviously I want to move around it. Moving around this way is both usually more effective and usually safer than the other options. You need to have and use those other options, of course, but they’re not as important as just regular ol’ walking and jumping.
Ah, cool, yeah I am totally down with that as well, man. Spot on.
Does anyone know some of Honda’s linkable moves? I know he can linkup close jab>strong>fierce. Are there anymore others?
Some depend on the character.
A few are:
- jab>strong>slaps
- strong>cr.Rh
- strong > jab
- strong > cr.forward
- cr.low > cr.low > cr.low
This ones only work on Guile and Gief and a few others I can’t remember:
- strong > Rh (Guile needs to be standing for RH to connect, not sure about Gief)
- cr.low > cr.low xx Fierce headbutt
- jab > cr.low xx Fierce headbutt
There are even more, but most links aren’t that usable in a high level match.
Is there skill to winning a Honda vs Honda match? For me, most of my mirror matches come down to this - one person takes the lead, then spams special moves (either HHS or headbutt) until the other dies. Whether they trade or not, Honda’s moves are so damaging that a Honda who wants to trade will quickly kill the other.
I’ve seen you can standing jab, jump back RH, or headbutt the other Honda’s headbutt and hit it clean, but I’ve also been hit out of all of those moves cleanly. Since no one tactic seems to work all the time, this match is largely a mystery for me. Any insight? Barring you landing a super or oichi throw, it’s very difficult to turn the tide if you are losing in a round versus a competent Honda.
I haven’t played to many Honda vs Honda matches but I have noticed a few things. I noticed that most of the time if the same punch was used for the headbutt at roughly the same time then the hit will trade evenly which is a duh oservation but Ill just throw it out there.
I’m really starting to the think that air time is playing a role on who wins the headbutt collide it is hard to explain what my theory is but I’ll test out some more things later and post what I find.
-DJ-
Patience and good reflexes mainly. But if both of the honda players are good, it will usually revolve around shenanigans. Luckily I haven’t ran into too many honda mirrors :tup:
Honda’s jump straight up fierce has always been the best way to get in on Guile, Ryu, Ken and Dee Jay and still remains the best way especially since it’s better now. 
I’ve found that the jab headbutt is good only if used sparingly at close range but you pretty much have to predict when your opponent is going to throw a projectile since you’re going to get stuffed if you don’t.
But back to Guile, jump up fierce into HHS to advance or jump over sonic boom with short to stuff his low forward and from there you can go into HHS or wait for him to throw a sonic boom at that range and you should have your sumo splash charged by then. Then the oicho fun begins.
Don’t be afraid to throw out low jabs or strongs when you’re in close range. These can stuff sonic booms or low forwards and make Guile hesitate when you’re at that range. Then you can go into HHS for chip damage. I mix in standing RH trips to stuff sonic booms as well though this is a bit risky.
The thing you have to watch out for with the jump up fierce over sonic booms is that Guile may get tired of letting you do that and start jumping with RH or fierce to hit you. This is where you’ll have to start mixing it up and do a jumping strong towards him. If you can get it early enough, you should win. Or if he commits too early and thinks you’re going to do a straight up fierce, nail him with a well timed sumo splash. I think the forward one is best depending on range. All sorts of mind games can start to develop here.
Honda mirrors are pretty crazy, and yeah, they often devolve to getting a life lead then trading hits a lot.
One round opener I use a lot for Honda mirrors is instant jab slaps that are not extended, i.e. stop mashing as soon as it comes out. Then stay ready to reaction jab headbutt any opening buttslam, you’ll have exactly enough time to do it even if the rival Honda buttslams right at the start. Most of the time, this opening will put you in the life lead at the start of the match, if only from tick damage from the jab slaps, then you can just trade hits a lot to win.
The one thing that beats this opener is an instant jab headbutt right at the start of the round, but that’s pretty risky since if rival Honda ever starts being fancy and doing that, you can beat it with a late jab headbutt yourself.
Another thing to keep in mind in fierce headbutt wars, if you do a blocked fierce headbutt and immediately afterwards do jab slaps, it’ll likely cleanly beat the “revenge” fierce headbutt of rival Honda if they do it right out of blockstun. It’s pretty handy to stop headbutt wars short
For an opener in Honda-Honda, I choose between jab slaps, jumping up roundhouse/fierce, and roundhouse buttslam, with much more emphasis on the last two. Jab slaps beats my opponent’s headbutt (I basically never do headbutt on opening, but I know some people like to); neutral jumping roundhouse/fierce beats buttslam and goes over headbutt; and roundhouse buttslam beats slaps and goes over headbutt. Neutral jumping roundhouse is probably the most effective individual opener for me.
I played a lot of this matchup at evo with Kusumondo. Let me tell you it was crazy I was only able to beat him a few times. He wiped the floor with me in the beginning but I eventually was able to catchup with him only when I was in complete concentration! He had some very interesting tricks to throw off your timing. He cant stand mirror matches either and mirror matches mean nothing to show who’s Honda is better! Best opening move is to jump back and bait them into Long distance headbutt. Then TURTLE, TURTLE, TURTLE and then turtle some more with the occasional turtling thrown in for good measure and to keep things honest turtle a little more!
but some basics are medium splash beats hands up close. headbutt can stop the splash while leaving the ground and while on the way down. you can jab the hands you can jab the super WTF?! NEVER do jab headbutt from full screen or you lose the game. Advance with HHS even if it means you take damage the super bar is your key. but these are still basic ST strats!
I played some Honda mirrors last night, and it wasn’t to terribly hard to jab headbutt in between blocked hits of the super. Did it a few times and not one was a reversal. Yeah The super is still pretty dangerous to use if it can be blocked.
Against Honda I use st.jab from time to time to stop headbutts, also Idk if this was possible in ST, but I’ve beaten a few HHS with st.jab also, but most of the times it trades, maybe the reduced priority makes this possible.
I’ve been wondering one thing though, I know that if 2 players grab each other at the same time it’s random who wins the throw, but…what about command throws, if 2 hondas do the ochio at the same time, what is the rule about who wins, or is it random also?
well, if you selected honda using fierce, and he selected honda using jab, then you’ll throw him. this is why you should alway select honda with start
Of course, Honda’s Holds are always stronger when you select the “Hold button” color. It’s only logical! 
Gray Honda for the win!
I haven’t used Honda much at all to be honest as I’ve been having so much fun with Zangief since release but I have made an effort to use Honda more in the past few days. But I felt as you did, that the jab headbutt wasn’t as good as people were making it out to be.
Last night, I was fortunate to play a number of games against DGV and I was slowly able to work the jab headbutt into my attack effectively. When I started, I was playing Honda as I normally did in ST for the most part. By the end of the session, I noticed that my strategy had dramatically changed and it was revolving around the jab headbutt. The only problem with the jab headbutt is that you have to really guess and anticipate when to do it. I do think that once Ryu players become accustomed to this more, they will be able to adjust their strategy to overcome this. But I am still using the straight up fierce quite a bit. Mixing the two methods of dealing with the hadouken was working well for me last night.
Also, I would say I’ve only faced two or three Ryu players so far who use the fake hadouken effectively. From what I saw, DGV hasn’t implemented this much in his game as of yet but I think when he and other good Shotos do, this will start to cause big problems for Honda. I’ve already experienced it the other day but I think just like Ryu players will be able to deal with the jab headbutt, Honda players will eventually be able to deal with the fake hadouken.
Roundhouse red face paint for life!
Jab headbutt is totally punishable unless you actually touch the opponent with it, it’s just that your opponent might not be prepared to punish it. By the way, against Akuma, Akuma’s strong and fierce red fireballs beat jab headbutt because they have 2 and 3 hits respectively.
Yes, I know.
DGV is no idiot. I consider him in the top two Ryu players online.
And I agree that once Ryu players become more familiar with the jab headbutt, it will get tougher but the key is to mix up your tactics as well.
Idk, I dont like that color, I prefer to use Green Honda to “psyche out” my opponents. :amazed:
I was saying that earlier, even the super won’t go through them.