Guile can die. I hate that matchup so much, lol. And this is just me, but fighting against Blanka is a bitch.
You’re a good player and I respect your opinions, but I’d rather not do that.
Walking forward was a great strat when Honda could store the super. Now, though, there’s nothing to offset losing his charge by doing that. Sumo splashing and jab headbutting are a lot better than walking forward, because they’re attack advances that allow him to charge up while they’re being executed.
Plus, they don’t give Guile free block damage, which is crucial when you’re dealing with a good turtle. Matches vs. pro turtles frequently come down to a few pixels of health or less.
Bulldogging in is still one of your most important tools. It does do something to offeset losing your charge, and that is that it gets you closer to Guile. Buttslam and jab headbutt have counters; walking does not.
as a chun player, i will say that i think it’s easier for chun to win in remix than in regular st
sure, in regular st, chun had an easier time keeping him out. however, one screw up was all it took for honda to take you to ochiotown for the rest of the round. now that honda bounces away after ochio, im not nearly as scared
Oh wow a honda thread… I have found salvation!!
UltraDavid wins.
Bulldogging against Guile is just a lot less risky overall. Ok, when you’re down in life, maybe you do want to risk your advancing headbutt or buttslam being countered for the chance to advance while charged (big risk, big potential reward). But most of the time, there’s no reason for you to risk anything when you can be practically certain to advance without being countered while bulldogging (small risk, but still a decent reward).
Note that that doesn’t always apply vs the shotos or Dee Jay since their fireballs have a lot more pushback. But you can easily get to midrange vs Guile just by blocking two booms.
Edit: You’re worried that Guile will jump at you? Seriously? Guile? Getting him in close range is basically the best thing that could happen.
Walking forward is probably what I depend on most, and I can’t even remember the last time that I was cornered by a Guile player. Obviously you also need to have neutral jumps and toward jumping forward and toward jumping short and buttslams and jab headbutts and slaps in your arsenal and each of those options is useful and should be used to varying degrees, but good old fashioned walking and neutral jumping are probably still what I depend on most.
The neutral jumping, yes, always good.
I’ll try more walking forward and blocking sonics vs. good turtles, see how that works. Thanks.
So, out of curiosity, and knowing that walking forward and blocking never seemed to work well, I pulled up a few matches featuring A-level Honda and Guile players.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=tvB4E8vkUS8
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=nuK14YjsrYw
See, this is what I’m talking about. You don’t see Honda doing much walk fwd & block at all, because contrary to what Thelo claims, Guile’s sonics DO come out in quick succession AND they push Honda back a good distance each time. (A distance approaching half the screen, in fact.)
Kusumondo spends the bulk of his time jumping straight up over the sonics (usually with fierce). The few times he does walk up and block, he gets nowhere.
Now, Thelo, are you saying that Sirlin has tweaked HDR such that Guile doesn’t charge so fast, and/or the sonics don’t push Honda back so far?
Hmm… after looking at these vids, it seems I did have it backwards. It’s not really that Guile’s projectiles intrinsically don’t have a lot of pushback, it’s just the jab projectiles that have less pushback. The fierce ones do push Honda pretty far. It’s probably just coincidence that most Guiles I’ve faced use a lot of jab projectiles, then.
Still, now I wonder if there is a difference in pushback strength between characters. Akuma’s fireballs’ pushback is obviously pretty insane but are there more subtle differences between the other chars?
Actually, I’ll just go and test it out, heh.
I have a question what is the best way to counter Ryu’s jumping forward or round house? I can’t seem to find a decent counter to this. I’ve tried using headbutt, but it either trades or beats it out most of the time. So I usually am stuck in block stun from fireballs and jump kicks. Can someone please help with this?
the not-so-insignificant tweak is guile’s new roundhouse flash kick. while guile maintains a charge, it’s pretty hard to jump toward him.
I only watched the first video, but Kusumondo depends almost exclusively on walking and jumping to get into Guile’s face, mixed in with some hands. Did he do a buttslam at all the whole time?
Ok, so I wasn’t completely off after all. I’ve tested fireball pushback in the HDR training mode, picked P1 Honda and P2 fireball characters in Ryu’s stage, and checked the pushback using by using the “planks” in Ryu’s stage as a unit of measurement. And every character’s fireball, be it jab, strong or fierce, pushes back by exactly the same amount, even Akuma. It’s about one “Ryu stage plank” length.
Except Guile! His jab sonic boom has like 40% pushback compared to the others, and his fierce sonic boom has like 60%. So walking forward and blocking is a lot more useful against Guile than against others.
Late jab headbutt.
Goddamn, Kusumondo is so fun to watch :lovin:
^^^This. Like everyone else I got enamored with the new moves and properties and it got me into bad habits. I have gone back to playing mainly ST-style, bulldogging and neutral jumping fierce (LOVE the new nuetral jumping fierce), with the new jumping short thrown in every now and then from the right range. His best boost was def. his Super (IF you know it will hit). Death to anyone dumb enough to jump at Honda with full super meter, LOL.
His super’s a huge deal against characters who want to try to get in on him (great as antiair and to punish laggy stuff), but against characters like Guile it’s only marginally more useful than before. Yeah, the payoff is much higher, but if it’s blocked it’s still your ass.
My favorite change for Honda in his matchups where he needs to get in is the better neutral jumping fierce. Jumping toward short is good if your opponent is standing at a range where jumping short can beat his sweeps, and jab headbutt is very good once you’re already in footsie range, but as for getting in in the first place I think neutral jumping fierce is his biggest area of improvement.
Of course. Why would he make himself predictable by limiting himself to a single approach tactic, when he’s got more than one perfectly good means of gaining ground? In http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=nuK14YjsrYw, he sumo splashes at 01:20, 02:08, 02:46, 03:30, 03:33, 03:52, 04:17, 04:21, 05:24, 05:25, 05:30, 05:58, and 06:11. (Note that those are just the ones that he did outside close range; he did some more that could be considered attack maneuvers.)
He walks forward and blocks a bit, but very seldom. No charge and no threat that way. It’s certainly not his preferred means of moving toward Guile (as it is yours), as the sonics routinely shove him back almost a half-screen’s worth of distance virtually every time, with his charge ruined to boot. That is the scenario in which I consistently found myself when fighting four- or five-star Guiles, and that’s why I abandoned “walk up and block” long ago.
His preferred method of getting in is obviously the fierce jump, though. If I could do it as well as he, I’d do it that much, too. Like I said before, that is definitely a prime way to deal with fireball spammers.
Yeah, that is for sure one of his top two best buffs in HDR. We can all be more like Kusumondo, now. 