Remix Honda Thread

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1061

The best Honda’s replied :lovin:
I’m posting some follow up videos… I still got owned last night in the PSN tournament. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=7893635#post7893635
I had a lossless streak all the way up to the finals, then lost it all in the final game. Brackets: http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=341955&tclass=

Semi-Finals:
[media=youtube]kYcowjFDRcs[/media]
Finals set 1: Rog play
[media=youtube]nq9Sgac3WtY[/media]
Finals set 2:
[media=youtube]wQBoVrstpkc[/media]
Finals set 3: Rog play
[media=youtube]zfCXCgj04WA[/media]
Finals set 4:
[media=youtube]QhE3-Rk201k[/media]
Finals set 5:
[media=youtube]OM-MLunN3aA[/media]

I failed you guys and it’s almost like it went in one ear and out the other.

Okay I tried holding down forward up for a crossup after a hug and I noticed it comes out early… I ended up getting thrown. Do you have to wait a bit?

This works well. Beats it clean.

Yeah I effed up on that so many times. I don’t know if it’s lag but the b!tch is quick. What I’m actually doing is a jump m.st, it almost seems like it stays out longer than any other move and catches people out of the air. I guess I timed it wrong.

Again, I don’t know if jinjah is mashing but none of my LK to ochio work as I keep getting reversed on it. The wait MK sumo smash is a great advice.

Thelo, thanks for responding and breaking it down in detail. I am still trying to work on the timing. I guess I’m not used to these situations therefore my reaction time is off.

Guys thanks for the responses, as I progress, I’ll keep you guys posted. There are a few more tournies coming up and I will try my best to utilize the suggestions.

1062

No. You hold up forward immediately, but you have to time the hit well and it only works on certain characters. Hit practice mode against Guile for about 5 minutes. Get him in the hug, hold up forward, then when you are about to land on him hit :hk: or :d::mk:. Also check out the following posts and hit some practice mode to try them out.

Honda Safe Jumps After Grabs
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6504108&postcount=577
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6504289&postcount=578

Honda Hug/Crossup Hug/Cross Under & 4-Hit Combo Chart
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6196393&postcount=456

Ya, it’s a great move to do air to air, or when you want to whiff the attack and land into a throw. But stick to :mk:, :hk:, :lk: and :hp: for your jump in options.

I don’t care what some people say, if you are in range of their throw, the Ochio can be counter thrown. When they’ve been conditioned to counter throw. Try canceling a cr.:lk: into an :mk: sumo smash.

No prob man. I’ll take a look at your recent vids and give you some more feedback.

1063

Thanks megaman.

Let me ask you guys this… is there a good normal anti-air for chun’s jump in mk or lk when she’s near or above you?

1064

Block -> Ochio is about your best bet if you don’t have a charge. I also added a bit more info to my previous post. Some good bits from discussions in the past.

1065

Oh absolutely ochio can be counter thrown. The thing is that you can fully piano a ochio while they can only throw with only 1 or 2 buttons. Quite frankly, I win the throw battle with ochio vs regular throw waaaay more than losing it, so it’s usually always worth it. Especially so since I’m pretty good at teching throws.

But yeah, your advice on mixing it up with a mk sumo smash is something I love doing too.

If you don’t have a charge, it’s a crappy situation. In the pre-ST days, the overhead chop (standing HP) was a solid anti-crossup move, but in ST/HDR the move is almost useless because it can only be activated when up close and the move has a lot of start up. If the chun player is dumb enough to jump into you, block and ochio. If they jump at you at max range, block. If it looks like they are trying to cross you up, BLOCK and do the motion for the ochio, but only do a negative edge. Chun has a TON of options off a crossup, blocked or not due to ridiculous frame advantage. If you block her crossup, she can go right into lightning legs or throw. Basically a situation to avoid.

If you somehow manage to get a chun to jump at you while charged, I like using a MK sumo smash to go through their jump at the last second and cross them up (shenanigans!). Obviously jab headbutt is the safest way to go.

1066

Ochio can be counter thrown (if you’re in their throw range) and everyone expects an Ochio attempt after a jump in short kick, that’s why I sometimes follow jump in short with cr.short->Fierce Headbutt or cr.short->HHS. After hitting with those (or even making them block) a couple times then start mixing in Ochio’s after the jump in short. It’s all about mixing it up.

After a bear-hug, hold up+forward and then you have to time the roundhouse afterwards, if it comes out and wiffs your doing it too early or too late. Whether it crosses up or not against Chun depends on your position on the stage and the direction you are facing (It crosses up more facing to the right). If it crosses up and hits do a combo, if it crosses up and she blocks then tick into Ochio. If it doesn’t cross-up and she blocks you can take one small step and fierce grab her and she can’t stop it. Again, if it hits, combo her.

Best advice against Chun is patience. I’ve had the habit of not being patient lately and losing to Chuns I shouldn’t be losing too (I’m too anxious to use all those fancy new HHS combos, LOL). If your patient it actually isn’t that bad.

1067

I 100% agree. Also mixing up the 4 hit combo with the 3 hit combo will yield good results. If you combo with :lp:, cr.:lk: XX HHS and they block the :lp: standing, go for cr.:lk: XX HHS next time.

1068

That’s very true after a cross-up attempt, good advice. After a jumping short they usually try to counter-throw and they almost always try to counter throw from a standing position, which is why I usually just use cr.short-> combo after jumping short (or cr.short->Ochio, which is also good to mix in there as well). Basically, the more mix-ups the better!

1069

Hey guys, I made it to top 8 winners bracket at norcal regionals… what to do what to do… I’m going against all the shoto powerhouses, choiboy, calipower, dgv… :sad: I play all these guys tomorrow in finals.

1070

Ryu, Ryu and Ryu. Pick Balrog? LOL! :looney: Congratulations on your performance! And good luck dude, that’s about all I can say!

BTW: This thread has created some mean ass Honda players huh? :wgrin:

1071

Holy crap! Congrats djmassif! :tup: Very nice showing. No matter who you’re facing, I’ll be rooting for you. Go! Go! Go!

1072

That’s what I’d do :xeye:

1073

Oh yes indeed. So much so that I’ve secretly picked him up as my backup. Ever see some crazy Honda shenanigans? You will!:wgrin:

1074

A did you see what SUPER1NYC posdt on here about you

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/27/e-honda-character-guide-super-street-fighter-2-turbo-hd-remix/.

1075

Hey, I’m still having trouble with the Dee Jay and Boxer matches. For Dee Jay, I try playing more reactively (short buttslam/float fierce over Max Outs), but it seems like a lot of my approach options get stopped by upkicks. As far as Boxer goes, I can sometimes stop his rushes with jabs and hands, but lately the Boxers I’ve seen have been spacing out st. strong and far st. fierce to keep me from damaging them, or sometimes doing far turnaround punches. Any tips for either?

1076

This isn’t extensively tested but it seems to be that:

Honda’s Diagonal Jump has:
6 Pre, 43 Air (49 'till landing) 6 landing
(this is not altered by any of his attacks)
and Neutral jump has:
10 Pre, 40 Air (50 'till landing)7 landing
(this is not altered by any of his attacks.)
Sumo drop hits on frames 43-53 for short and forward, and 42-57 for roundhouse with recoveries of 4, 5, and 6 respectively.

Post throw frame advantage varies by characters, so:
vs Akuma - FP 49, RH 46, Oichio 17,17,18
vs Balrog/Boxer - FP 46, RH 44, Oichio 21,21,21
vs Vega/Claw - FP 47, RH 46, Oichio 9,9,9
vs Thawk - FP 47, RH 44, Oichio, 19,18,19
vs Ken - FP 49, RH 46, Oichio 17,17,18
vs Ryu - FP 49, RH 46, Oichio 18.18.18
vs Honda - FP 49, RH 46, Oichio 15,16,15
vs Chun Li - FP 48, RH 45, Oichio 13, 12,13
vs Fei Long - FP 48, RH 44, Oichio 17,17,18
vs Deejay - FP 47, RH 44, Oichio 18,17,17,
vs Zangief - FP 46, RH 45, Oichio 19,18,18
vs Blanka - FP 49, RH 47, Oichio 13,12,12
vs Guile - FP 48, RH 45, Oichio 15,14,15
vs Dhalsim - FP 47, RH 43, Oichio 11,11,11
vs Sagat - FP 46, RH 43, Oichio 9,9,9
vs M Bison/Dictator - FP 47, RH 46, Oichio 13,12,12
vs Cammy - FP 47, RH 43, Oichio 18,19,19

So, if the frame advantage is less than 50, then (timing-ise) Honda can hit from an immediate neutral jump. If it’s less than 49, Honda can hit on an immediate diagonal jump (timing wise). The selection of moves that will hit is limited by spacting- for example, many times the only neutral jumping move that will hit is the forward floating Fierce punch.

I think that many ‘anti-air’ moves wil be able to hit Honda during his jump recovery frames.

The cross-up properties seem inconsistent. I haven’t worked out why it will or wont post-jump cross.

Theoretically, it’s possible to land a ‘safe’ sumo drop after the holds in some match-ups, but doing so requires very good luck, or super human prediction/reaction.

1077

It’s really not as hard as you make it out to be. I also am not sure about some of the numbers. I know with absolute certainty that after a :hk: grab that you can safe jump Ryu with :lk: as long as he doesn’t have super. If he tries to SRK Honda has time to block and punish. This doesn’t work with Ken because his SRK hits on the first frame.

Also some other characters can reversal Honda with their super if he tries to safe jump. Dee Jay, Chun, Boxer and Dictator come to mind.

1078

By “sumo drop” I meant the butsplash special move, not jumping short.

So, without super, the following should be safe jumps. Note that spacing may make the jumps miss, and that some characters’ normal moves may be fast enough to matter.

vs Akuma - Neutral jump after FP grab.
vs Balrog/Boxer - Either jump after RH or Fierce grab.
vs Vega/Claw - Either jump after RH or Fierce grab.
vs Thawk - Either jump after Fierce grab.
vs Ken - No safe jumps
vs Ryu - Neutral jump after Fierce grab, Diagonal Jump after RH grab.
vs Honda - Neutral jump after Fierce grab, Diagonal Jump after RH grab.
vs Chun Li - Diagonal jump after Fierce grab.
vs Fei Long - Diagonal jump after RH grab, either jump after Fierce grab
vs Deejay - Either jump after FP grab
vs Zangief - Either jump after either grab. (Zangief has no reversals).
vs Blanka - No safe jumps
vs Guile - Either jump after FP grab, Diagonal jump after RH grab (maybe)
vs Dhalsim - Either jump after either grab. (Dhalsim has no non-super reversals).
vs Sagat - Diagonal Jump after FP grab.
vs M Bison/Dictator - Either Jump after either Grab (Bison has no non-super reversals).
vs Cammy - FP 47, RH 43 - Either jump after Fierce Grab.

1079

Got lost on the last page I think :sweat:

1080

I’ve had Rogs try to reversal super after I safe jump with HK after a HP grab and I always seem to be able to block.

Deejay is just a horrible horrible match for Honda if all they do is safe maxout while charging downback for upkicks. LK upkicks kill EVERYTHING Honda has, including crossup sumo smashes. You pretty much have to spend half the match getting in and then trying to cause as much damage as you can (tick into ochio).

Rog is a lot easier comparatively. Throw out constant crouching LPs to stuff rushes and launch a headbutt every time he walks forward. If you knock down close, use a MK smash to crossup into ether a ochio or immediately into a MK sumo smash to keep them guessing. DO NOT USE YOUR SUPER UNLESS THEY JUMP AT YOU. Rog can return a blocked super with a rush or his own super EVERY TIME. Remember that you can follow up a HP throw with a MK/HK kick every time for free and there’s nothing Rog can do (if they reversal headbutt, you block and get a free ochio). Doesn’t work in or around the corners.

Basically I try to HP throw no matter what. Rog has an incredibly hard time getting Honda out of his hair once he gets in with crossup shenanigans.