It’s extremely annoying. One electricity knockdown (whether it trades or not) shouldn’t give Blanka that great of positioning. I wish Sirilin made electricity hit recovery faster…
Yeah electricity does trade a lot more often with HHS. You can still beat it clean, but you’ll have to do it from the very tip of the hands, so watch your spacing very carefully and use the least advancing one you can. Against electricity, it’s okay to do fierce HHS from fullscreen and basically nowhere else - stick to jab and strong.
If you do get knocked down and Blanka can cross you up, your best bet is an escaping reversal roundhouse buttslam to get out of trouble.
From medium range against electricity I use crouching forward or crouching roundhouse. Against close electricity, cr.short->HHS a few times will make him re-think his strategy in a hurry, LOL.
I only use jab or strong HHS against elec. from their maximum ranges, I never use fierce against it.
I never use HP HHS ether against electricity ether, but lately just about every time I use max range MP HHS I trade. Again, it usually isn’t a problem unless I face a Blanka that knows how to use a roll right after a electricity knockdown to position himself for a deep crossup that usually kills me.
Ugh… just thinking about it pisses me off.
cr.:lk: XX :mp: HHS
You beat me to it. :lol:
It’s been a while since I visited these!
After facing Damdai a hundred times and losing most of those, I think I’m ready to bring the Honda - Ken matchup from 3.5-6.5 to a solid 3-7. I underestimated just how useful that wide-arcing fierce shoryuken of his really is in keeping Honda at bay, especially coupled with the jab fireball. He’s one of the few characters that actually do very in the corner, too - backjump roundhouse and jab shoryuken is surprisingly hard to deal with.
About Honda - Chun-Li, it seems that most Chun-Li players think that they have great advantage over Honda for some reason… but the more I play, the more I’m convinced that Honda is actually the one with advantage. Buttslams, and especially reaction buttslams, are just absurdly effective against Chun-Li, and with the right timing, after knocking down Chun Li, Honda can do slightly delayed buttslams or vertical jumping short kicks to actually beat any reversal upkicks, then continue bringing down the pain. This means Honda has great advantage once he gets in, and a combination of bulldogging, reaction buttslams, and well-predicted fullscreen jab headbutts vs fireballs is reasonably easy enough to get Honda close to Chun Li to bring down heavy punishment.
This matchup is fairly reaction-based for Honda, and is one of my specialty matchups - I would bet money that the Honda - Chun-Li matchup, instead of 5-5, is secretly 6-4 in Honda’s favor once Honda realizes the power of a reaction-based strategy here.
On Honda - Zangief, I think even my initial rating of 7-3 was too generous. Whenever I face a Zangief player, it’s a free win for me. Honda has jab HHS, far sweep, wide array of reversals to get out of tick throws, and easy way to build meter -> do anti-air or escaping super for 50% damage. He also has tricks like the floating fierce to regain life advantage, which is surprisingly hard for Zangief to deal with: do slightly advancing floating fierce, then sometimes do MP HHS upon landing to catch Zangief out of anything that isn’t low jabs (also useful on Zangief’s wakeup). Meanwhile, Zangief’s only real way to deal damage relies on Honda making actual mistakes, like using fierce HHS or screwing up his reversal after a tick.
I would now peg the Honda - Zangief matchup at 7.5-2.5 and wouldn’t be surprised at a 8-2 rating.
I’m actually more afraid of the Honda - T. Hawk matchup than of the Zangief matchup now. Hawk has actual mixups, like whiffed jump jab -> [DP or typhoon], or even just walk-up [DP or throw] which is surprisingly effective since Hawk has decent walk speed. Hawk’s low jabs are also way better than Zangief’s low jabs, and a combination of low jabs -> dive as soon as Honda walks forward means a surprisingly solid defense.
Still, Honda holding down-back with life advantage remains really really hard for Hawk to break. I’m only bringing Honda - T. Hawk from 8-2 up to 7.5-2.5.
Agreed. Except for Chun. If they are adept at just jumping over you (ether crossing up or just missing) they’ll recover before you can turn around nearly all the time and mess you up. Incredibly bad if you try to use a MK Sumo Smash antiair and miss (free throw or combo). The bitch is just too good at running away. You pretty much have to get on top of her (lulz) and stay there the entire match.
Is this automated mixup thing any good or is it complete garbage, I dont see where it would be too useful.
It goes like
:r::df::d::db: and hold at :db: position to store ochio and charge for headbutt or buttslam. From here I imagine moving forward with hhs. The automated mixup part comes from going from here to :l::ub::lk:+:lp: giving you either an ochio or buttslam. But at the same time if you are close enough to land an ochio or buttslam why not go for either one or the other instead of both. Unless I have something wrong here.
EDIT: Also I think this is how you do it(not sure), I read about this somewhere about E.Honda
P.S E. Honda you have trained to be a great loser! Now you must learn to fight
Hey guys, please critique this scrubby video of mine.
[media=youtube]NcCBQ4rLcKQ[/media]
I got owned by jinjah16 last night in the PSN tourney. I think partly the lag got me whiffing a lot of things but does cr. roundhouse sweep her neutral jump shannigans? How about her diagonal j.sh at the corner of my hit box… how do I counter that?
You neglected the fact that even without having a back charge Honda can still reliably anti-air all of Zangief’s jumping normals with a far standing jab. I’ve won matches against Zangief players using nothing but standing jab.
I still disagree with your Chun rating, I think it’s closer to 5.5-4.5 or 6-4 in favor of Chun. But I play a different style so we can probably factor that in.
That’s pretty much prototypical run-away Chun play. Very nasty. In those matches I pretty much make it a point to try and land a HP throw hug (which you can just hold forward-up during it to make for an ambiguous crossup situation). After the crossup, I like to cr.LK into ether a MP sumo smash or ochio to keep them guessing. If you connect with the smash, you’ll have plenty of time to cross up and start the process over again.
If the bitch does that jump up and down MK thing in the corner, you’re pretty much going to have to time a non-smash MK jump to hit her coming down or up. Hard stuff.
If you notice they like to start the round with neutral jump whatever, try to time a HK sumo smash to follow up on them coming down. Then go for a HP grab (if they block) or crossup (if it hits) and start shenanigans.
Just towards+roundhouse sweep Chun as she lands from her vertical jump.
If you grab her with HP bear-hug you can safe jump afterwards with roundhouse and get her into a throw loop. If you cross-up with the roundhouse after the bear-hug and it hits you can do cr.short->HHS - Ochio to end the round.
But mostly it’s just chasing her back and forth across the stage, hoping to get one knockdown or one grab in before time runs out, LOL.
How the hell does Thelo make that fight look so easy?
Ya, the other thing I noticed was too many jump punches. You jumped in when she was on the ground and you went for jab. Stick with that in the air.
When she jumps back/neutral with short/forward it the corner you can trip her with max range standing roundhouse or max range standing jab will hit her when she comes down.
Also, more sumo smashes and mix up grabbing after with cr.:lk:, cr:mk:, another buttslam (credit Thelo, that’s a pretty good move, especially when she has super), head butt, or simply sitting there waiting for her to upkick.
Oh yeah, in the corner if you knock down with a smash, pretty much always follow up with a safe (or as good as you can do it) jumping LK into ochio. After the ochio have another MK sumo smash waiting if they go for a pre-emptive reversal upkick. Works very well coincidentally against shotos in the corner too who like to wake up reversal SRK.
Hahah, I would like to see that. “Standing jab is a pretty good move.”
@vestax, this is indeed the prototypical Chun Li play. The core of Chun Li’s staple strategy here is that
(1) Chun Li throws a jab fireball, then
(2) she jumps in with MK and follows with a
(3) close HP -> fireball blockstring, then
(4) jumps back with MK again and resets the loop with a new (1) jab fireball.
This popular strategy looks strong, but every part in that chain secretly has weaknesses. Let’s see what to do or not do for those. Remember that in this matchup, your first goal is to get in HK buttslam range while charged - from there, you can threaten to HK buttslam through any fireballs and counter all her jump-ins with
(1) Chun Li throws a jab fireball.
Your three real options here are prediction jab headbutt (started before she actually throws the fireball), floating fierce over the fireball, and block in downback.
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Prediction jab headbutt is good if you are close enough to hit Chun Li with it (you get a knockdown!), and decent if you are completely at fullscreen (video @ 0:08) and guess right (you get closer). Especially useful when Chun Li decides to throw several fireballs in a row instead of following her staple pattern. It’s very dangerous to try it at 3/4 screen, however. If you do it from fullscreen, be prepared to block her (2) jump MK high. What you gain with a successful fullscreen prediction jab headbutt is positioning.
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Floating fierce over the fireball is only useful when you are far enough from Chun Li to not get hit by the (2) jump MK, which basically only makes it useful at or near fullscreen. It’s a decent option if you have life advantage, since it negates fireball chip damage and forces Chun Li to approach you, but it’s very weak offensively.
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Block in downback is safe and versatile, and sets you up to exploit weaknesses of her staple pattern later. However, if Chun Li decides to not continue her pattern, and instead just throw lots of fullscreen fireballs, you lose on chip damage.
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One extra option you have here is reaction super through her fireball. Obviously a good and powerful option, but you need super and Chun Li needs to be somewhat predictable for it to work. Hold downback throughout the super and follow it up with a MK buttslam for continued pressure if Chun Li blocks your super.
One thing to not do here is regular reaction buttslam over the fireball, since her (2) jump MK will stuff it.
(2) Chun Li jumps in with MK.
This is your first real opportunity. One of three things can happen:
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Chun Li started her pattern from fullscreen, and jumped deep after her fireball, and it is possible for you, with one single buttslam, to simultaneously go through her fireball and punish her jump-in. Obviously a great situation. You must do the buttslam very, very late for this to work, at the very last moment before the fireball would hit you.
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Chun Li jumps early after her fireball, and her jump-in actually whiffs against you, after you’re pushed back from blocking the fireball. Happens a hundred times in that video, 0:27 for instance. If you have a down charge, great! You can block the fireball in downback, without losing your charge, then either buttslam through her (3) blockstring’s fireball attempt, or skip right ahead to (4) if she doesn’t attempt a blockstring at all. If you don’t have a charge, just stay in downback block.
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Chun Li started her pattern from 3/4 range, and the fireball and jump-in have no gaps between each other (video @ 1:26). That’s the most annoying pattern. Just block it high and accept losing your down charge. You’ll give up one chip damage from the (3) fireball for the benefit of positioning later.
(3) Chun Li does a ground blockstring, like close HP -> fireball.
Sometimes you can punish this with a buttslam, sometimes you can’t. If you lost your down charge blocking Chun Li’s (2) jump MK, then all you can really do is downback block. It’s okay to block this.
Alternatively, Chun Li will sometimes skip this part completely and go straight to (4). That’s actually a good thing for you because you take less chip damage, but you need to be able to react to (4)'s opportunity fast enough.
(4) Chun Li jumps back with MK, then resets the loop with a new (1) jab fireball.
This is your biggest and easiest punishment target. Remember that your main goal is to get close to Chun Li while charged, though a knockdown is fine too. During the long time that Chun Li jumps back, you have two main options:
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Do a fierce HHS right out of blockstun, to advance up to HK buttslam range while retaining your charge. The timing for this is easier and is a nice option select in case Chun Li decides to not actually jump back for some reason, especially when Chun Li just did a deep, tight blockstring. However, sometimes Chun Li can jump back far enough that a single fierce HHS won’t actually get you in HK buttslam range - that most often happens when her (2) jump MK actually whiffed in front of you. In that case, use the next option:
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Time a fierce headbutt to hit just after Chun Li lands, hopefully hitting her out of her resetting fireball’s startup. You must time it fairly late, because her jump MK will smack you out of the air if you do it too early. Whether you land a clean hit (get a knockdown!) or get blocked (be in HK buttslam range, push her towards the corner!), you win.
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Alternatively, if you have super, you can also stay ready to reaction super through her resetting fireball.
Random tips:
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If you ever decide to forwardjump on Chun Li (video @ 0:16), Chun Li’s most obvious counter is an anti-air sweep. So don’t forget that your forwardjump LK beats her sweep! You can do forwardjump LK -> MP HHS for a surprising offense, which you did very well @ 1:45.
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I know I’ve said this a zillion times already, but never forget your main threat, the reaction HK buttslam through fireballs at midrange. Chun Li’s fireball is especially slow travel speed and has big recovery so it’s easy to do, which is why your #1 goal is to get to that range. For instance, in the video @ 1:09 would have been a perfect opportunity to use it - scoring a knockdown on a cornered Chun Li usually means a win.
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Do not abuse fierce headbutts. In this matchup, they have one specific purpose: catching Chun Li as she lands from a jump. Using them at any other time will just get you fireballed, lightning kicked, or jump kicked.
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Always remember that you can break out of Chun Li close range loose blockstrings with buttslams.
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Once you get a knockdown, you can win. A good, simple midscreen loop is buttslam KD -> MP HHS to advance -> crossup HK buttslam that hits a few frames after Chun Li wakes up -> MP HHS -> … You can also do that in the corner, but instead of doing crossups to repeat it, just stay ready to reaction buttslam through her next fireball instead.
Is “Gorilla Imo” the same person as “Shogatsu”?
[media=youtube]OTQOOA0hZ7g[/media]
Yes.
Thanks Shari! 
He’s also NShogatsu on XBL.