Remix Honda Thread

That’s what I thought too. But if you watch more matches of damdai, especially vs Jiggly’s Hawk, you will see that he mixes up his defense by not reversalling sometimes. That’s why he’s a top player. He’s got just the right amount of mindgames and mixups going on, that you will think he can be baited, and he lets you think so, but then the next round or whenever, he will keep his cool.

I like the idea of negative edging the Slaps into Oichio setup tho. There might be another technique or strategy that comes from developing that setup, so I would definitely pursue that avenue.

But yeah, baiting and punishing only works if Honda can get the knockdown in the first place, which is very difficult. If you’re talking about the negative edge Slaps into Oichio setup, then yeah, that’s a good way to bait and punish.

Good to know that the enemy Honda players are at a loss on what to do as well when damdai is knocked down lol

Hah, yeah, I do know Honda has a big disadvantage vs shotos. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing to be done and I should just give up. :lovin:

Thanks guys, much appreciated. :china:

There’s a chance I’m misinterpreting your statement, but I thought I’d clarify. Cr. short, strong/fierce x 3 (Minimal HHS) is unsafe on hit. If you only go for the minimal duration HHS you only hit once and advance right next to your opponent putting you in range for Ochio. However your opponent recovers before Honda recovers from his HHS. Most sensible players will try to block HHS after they get hit. Scrubs will mash out moves and hit you out of the Ochio setup.

Here’s my running critique of the winners final match:

0:22: You don’t need to be toward jumping like this. If you want to toward jump, at least make sure that you’re at a better (ie either closer or farther) range than this; this is probably the worst location you can jump from against Ken.

0:27: Again, this needs to be punished. Even a crouching jab would have been better than nothing.

0:37: For the last little while you’ve had Damdai cornered and scared, but all you do is a random jab headbutt and then a predictive floating fierce, which are not very good options. Where’s the just-out-of-range toward+rh (ie at a range where you won’t hit him unless he does a move)? Where’s the standing jab pressure? Where’s the walk up grab, or the walk up grab fake? Where’s the cr. short xx hands Megaman bs? Etc etc. You have Damdai right where you want him, but you let him off the hook.

0:42: After seeing that fierce whiff, he knows you’re going for hands. I like this jump back rh by Damdai a lot.

1:03: Ohhh man, too bad you didn’t get this fierce grab, fierce grab shenanigans are really good against shotos in the corner.

1:05: Yeah, he’s not Ryu. You have to be a little more wary with your jab pressure because of Ken’s mp and hp dragon punches.

1:07: Definitely do not like this buttslam. Buttslam should be used very sparingly against fbs imo, and this range is not one of the times where it makes sense.

1:10: You didn’t get punished for it, but I don’t like this toward jump at all. This is the same jump range as the one at :22. Damdai could have done a shoryu or a fireball and knocked you back, and in fact I believe his cr. jab probably was a jab version of one of those. I don’t really get the cr. strong after this either, by the way. What was that cr. strong supposed to accomplish?

1:25: You did a better job harassing him than you did at :37. I like the toward+rhs, cr. strongs, and hands, but you could still be doing more. Why was that hands just a jab hands instead of strong or fierce? Why did you try a toward jump at 1:19? Why did you do a jab headbutt at 1:21 considering that you have better anti-fb tricks that don’t knock you back out at that range (ie the cr strong and st rh you use in addition to far standing jab and hands)?

At the end of this sequence you get dragoned out of another headbutt. I don’t like the headbutt, but what I don’t like more is the fact that Damdai thinks he can get away with random shoryu there. My bet is that your earlier inability to punish his random dragon punches played a significant role in his decision to throw this out. Maybe he didn’t actively think about it, but it’s a sign that you didn’t put enough fear into him to affect his decision making.

1:34: I can’t really tell if this jump toward fierce was on reaction to his jump, but if it wasn’t, I don’t like it. Again, you have him where you want him; why would you do something like this that carries with it not only the possibility of getting knocked back out but also, at this point, the possibility of losing the round? I know sometimes you have to take risks, and this one pays off, but you’ve already taken too many risks this round imo.

2:13: I think this has been a very well played round up until this super. There’s no reason to risk this super; you have Damdai cornered, you’re up on life, and you don’t want to risk either of those things going away. I’m sure Damdai was annoyed with himself that he didn’t punish you on block.

2:17: You didn’t need headbutt to punish this dragon punch, just a cr. jab.

2:19: I like this block a lot. I thought for sure you were gonna try jab headbutt or buttslam or jump. You made a good decision.

2:21: Kinda surprised we haven’t seen this yet. This trap is what worries me most about Ken.

2:26: That’s a real nice empty jump and a nice demonstration of what to against that trap.

2:43: Wrong range for that headbutt (although again, not a huge fan of that headbutt in this situation).

4:00: Trying to go lighter on comments here because I’ve already addressed most of the issues I have with what makes you lose this round. You really gave away that 2nd round with random jumps, buttslams, and headbutts.

5:23: You really fell apart in that last round. Way too many jumps and buttslams.

By the way, I forget where I saw it now, but at one or two points Damdai did wakeup shoryu and you blocked and punished, which I thought was real nice. You have to mix up your meaties just like he has to mix up his wakeups.

In almost every round you managed to corner Damdai’s Ken. That’s not easy, so good job. But you really need to work on your corner pressure, because that’s where you’re most dangerous. You also need to work on cutting out the buttslams, toward jumps, and supers. I almost never saw you bulldog, which is pretty remarkable because it’s a major part of Honda’s anti-fb game. There’s nothing wrong with walking up, taking a tick of chip damage from a blocked fireball, and picking your timings and ranges to do something else. Also I agree with everyone else, picking up that Megaman bs would be useful to you as well.

Anyway, I continue to not see an unwinnable matchup here. You took a game and got close to taking a couple more rounds, all while still having significant room for improvement (and by significant I don’t mean that you’re bad, you’re a real good player, just that you could be even better). Good stuff, fun to watch.

he can

True, but if Honda still had stored super in HDR, it would’ve been a GREAT help against shotos/chun/guile (can’t throw fire when Honda walks forward).

Ahh, but he does have a frame of completely red hitbox on his super (check the hitbox data from those YBH scans that came out a few months ago). It’s actually a lot bigger than the one that just covers Honda’s head on his jab headbutt. Like the jab headbutt though, it’s just too damn slow to pass through meaty fireballs. Reversal super can connect with the first hit if the meaty fireball is done up close, which is usually a good trade.

I think labeling the corner pressure megaman does as “megaman bs” is pretty appropriate. :smiley:

Well I’m not referring to corner pressure generally. Megaman bs is just cr. short xx hands pressure and combos, whether they come in the corner or after crossups.

I’m just glad I was able to contribute something useful to the community! Even if it is a bunch of BS! :rofl:

It’s a mixup, so yes there’s an element of risk in it, but that’s the point. It’s not safe on hit at all, but you have to guess right or you’ll take big damage, and 99% of the time people will block HHS on reaction the first couple of times they see it. If you know the oicho going to happen you can easily counter the setup by reversaling after the first hit of HHS, but if a skilled player mixes it up by continuing the hands or going for the oicho half the time it can be terrifying to have happening to you up close.

It’s like having to guess hi/low on wakeup against a close up ryu, only more damaging. If you get it wrong you’re a gonner.

It’s a big plus for honda to be able to put that kind of pressure on ken in that matchup from a ground position with no jump in, and also without needing a charge. It means ken can be trained to play a little more conservatively with the fierce dragon punch.

Here’s the man himself in action demonstrating it as part of a f*cking SCARY combo. [media=youtube]kRiHpNYbPpU[/media]

I guess I’m just frustrated because every time I’ve gone for that setup, they just hit me out of it. I’ll get really excited that they didn’t block my cross up correctly, cr short, strong HHS and boom, uppercut or random normal to the face. :’’’ (

LOL, I don’t think it’s BS, I think my Honda game was fairly solid before and adding that dimension to it has really helped.

1-hit Parry - I feel ya, it’s always the scrubs that mash buttons that hit their way out of the HHS->Ochio set-up, LOL. That’s when I just keep hitting the button after HHS hits for extra hits and/or chip damage. OR that’s when I start switching it up and Ochio’ing after the cr.short since they think HHS is coming. It’s a lot easier to keep your Ochio’s from being reversaled if they have the fear of cr.short HHS to deal with.

Finally got a chance to see the videos, the only thing I could see you were doing wrong (other than too many random Supers, which we are all guilty of every now and then) is that when you had him in a good position in the corner you stopped advancing and became predictable. It was either HHS, headbutt, or jump-in fierce. Don’t be afraid to let go of down-back and move in and out and do more pokes to keep pressure on. Mix in some pokes in-between HHS: standing jabs, cr.jabs, cr.forward kicks (which have good range and priority), cr.short->HHS, towards+roundhouse, etc. Then throw in some walk-up throws.

I haven’t played Damdai’s Ken in awhile but the few times I was able to do well against him is when I was able to put lots of pressure on him in the corner. The hard part is always just getting that close, LOL. I’m not the rush-down aggresive type like EA is either, but in some match-ups it does pay to be more aggresive (cautiously aggresive, anyway, LOL).

Oh man, so I got on quick matches last night. I managed to land a cross up j. roundhouse, cl. jab. I got really excited and confirmed into cr. short HHS and got ready to negative edge Ochio when…the four hit combo finished off my opponent. : ( I can never win in life.

That shit is legit huh? You didnt even need the throw to win! :china: I love seeing/hearing about other people doing that sort of stuff. :bgrin:

LOL!!!

Now…I seem to remember back when I first started posting combos in Honda threads that some people started saying, “Honda doesn’t need combos to win. Why even bother?”, or stuff along those lines. I hope that people can now see that it’s always a much better idea to try to land three hits instead of settle for one when presented with the opportunity to do either one…especially with Honda. (The key, of course, is being able to tell the difference between a one hit opportunity and a combo opportunity. Street Fighter 102, there.)

He is much more than a “defensive fortress” when played properly.

But I didn’t finish the round with Ochio, so it doesn’t really count in my mind. It’s like a wrestler ending the match without his signature move. (I play Honda like I play Gief. Ochio or nothing.)

Edit: And yes, I still try to Ochio with Gief. It’s not surprise I don’t win that much with him.

When played properly he becomes a “mobile defensive fortress” complete with Torpedo turrets, HHS walls, and Ochio bombs.

Is it just me or does HHS trade more often with Blanka electricity than it did in ST? Normally I wouldn’t care, but playing super high level Blankas like BlueTallCans that use electricity knockdowns to position for crossup city is making me wonder what to do about it besides walkup sweep…

Well the hitboxes for strong and fierce hands have been nerfed so yea from my experience it does trade more often.

I love it :slight_smile: