Something that a couple of Gief’s used on me recently (and oddly, never before), was meaty green hand as I get up straight into SPD. I’ve never had much trouble with this match up, even against Gief’s that really knew their stuff… but this got me wayyyy too much, so I had to ask for advice.
I swear I tried every reversal option only to eat the green hand regardless. I then opted to simply block the hand and reverse the tick, but a.) that’s harder than reversing the initial hit usually, and b.) was exceptionally hard in the cases I’m describing, I don’t know why, though. I guess mostly because I don’t know the reversal timing off a green hand > SPD tick as I’ve rarely dealt with it before. But like I said, I’d prefer to stop the tick attempt at stage one.
If you’re having trouble reversaling with headbutt, try reversaling with buttslam instead - it has longer invincibility so it’s easier to time, and may be more helpful in your case.
It’s a bit riskier because it’s possible to have it blocked -> lariat, but usually it works well.
For some reason, Vega is my worst matchup statistically at the moment. Perhaps it’s the lag causing him to jitter everywhere, but I fail to react to almost everything he can do. It feels as if there is only 1 frame between him in a crouched position, to him being on my wall directly above me (pretty much too late to react).
I’m aware the best strategy is getting a health advantage, camping the corner, then jab headbutting mostly everything he does - until he starts mixing in some walldives off my own wall. I really wish there was a more reliable counter to this than jumping up and smacking him before he hits the wall. When I attempt to bumsplash away, sometimes I get air-thrown from the bumsplash, or I end up eating a slide during recovery.
Also, what’s the best thing to do if I’ve lost the opener and find myself at a health disadvantage? I find myself being baited into fullscreen fierce headbutting out of panic, but I’m aware of how stupid this is, I can just never think of much else to do!
Another part of the problem is I find very very few Vegas to practice against. You got any more tips, or could you perhaps walk me through how a winning match of You vs Vega plays out, starting with the opener?
And one more thing - it’s probably common knowledge, but is it possible to reversal between any of the hits in Vega’s roll? Getting locked down in the corner by this has me raging!
You can but it is random when you can, so short of using stored ochio piano presses I wouldn’t chance it. It seems to be kinda easy to reversal coming up from a knockdown though with a headbutt.
If you’re backed into the corner, you can always close standing fierce a walldive off your wall; the chop always wins.
If you’re at disadvantage, you have to start taking risks. Play aggressive footsies; in ST you can gain ground with HHS and win all trades, but I’m not sure if that works in HDR as well. Low strong is actually pretty good at beating some of claw’s pokes, but that’s really it.
Alright im back for more help. Right when I think I got everyone down and figure out what works I realize I dont have the following down. I ran into 3 back to back to back Chuns that all DOMINATED me. Using the strategy I quoted. One guy even admitted to just counter picking me cuz my picture is Honda. So when all the stuff I do against Dee Jay/ Guile Failed Id figured Id just ask again. And it seemed the only time I did win was when I got her corner trapped which atm is a lot easier said then done so maybe Im just overlooking something.
They FB trap: I react with :
L. Headbutt = HK me
Jump In = Kicks to Face + LPorLK
Buttslam= Air grabbed/ Blocked + Kicks
Then I ran into some Dictators that seemed to know the matchup extremely well . They only did P. Crusher and grabbed. How do I punish the Crusher ? Headbutt loses to it , Buttslam seemed to lose to it. blocking led to me getting thrown. I even tried reversal throwing and that didnt seem to work ?? All were 50/50 but that was the only thing giving them wins.
I’ll dig around my video collection to see if I can some useful vs Chun matches for you. Basically your options are crummy at a distance and become more useful the close you get (buttslam in particular). Jab headbutt isn’t too useful vs Chun, but roundhouse buttslam should always be on your mind, and should always be safe on block.
If Dic does crusher -> grab, you should always be able to ochio him back. You have the reversal frame and three buttons to piano for 6 inputs, meanwhile he only has one or two inputs (I forgot if Dic can throw with MP).
Buttslam will beat the crusher if it’s either done very early (buttslam lands on top of Dic’s body) or very late (buttslam rises as Dic finishes and falls to the ground). If you have super, a really flashy way to beat jab crushers is to use your super against it, it will win a surprisingly large amount of the time. Some guys like to use standing jab against it. Again I’ll try to find a few videos for you when I get the time.
Can’t Chun hit with Super after blocked Roundhouse buttslam from certain distances? I’m thinking I’ve been hit with Super after a blocked roundhouse buttslam before, but then maybe I’m remembering wrong and I stuck something stupid out after the buttslam, LOL.
From about the same distance I just jump in with jumping forward kick (not the splash, regular forward), usually followed by fierce HHS (though Chun can Super through the HHS if she has Super and it doesn’t combo). Chun is an easy target once she’s backed into the corner.
Jumping forward kick will also hit her out of her Super if she’s trying to use it as an AA after a fireball if you time it right (I love the hitboxes on his jumping forward, it is an underappreciated move for Honda, doesn’t cross-up but great for jumping in).
Hey Honda players, I need some help taking out the fat man. I play boxer and I find that Honda is one of my hardest match ups. Part of this is because my play style is very much rush down. I’ve tried to turtle, but I’m just not good at it. I usually take damage at some point and get forced into going on the offensive. Anyway, at first this match up just ate me alive. Tick throws, butt flops, jab head butt, the works. So I decided to look up some videos, watch them, then try to emulate them. The gist of what I found was randomly spam standing jab to stop head butts, low rush and standing fierce every now and then, and I guess stay out of butt flop range.
When I try to emulate this, it doesn’t really work out so well. I’s not a terrible mess, but sometimes my jab trades with Honda’s head butt (do I need to spam faster or something?). Sometimes Honda will throw out a random poke or head butt that will beat my low rush. And sometimes he’ll get in on me and manhandle my boxer.
I’ve tried to describe the situation the best that I can, hopefully you guys can help me out. The case might be that I need more experience to understand the match up.
seriously, you’ve come into a thread dedicated to helping honda players to WIN, and asked them to help you to make them LOSE?
I’m really not being funny/smart here, i’m 100% serious-wouldn’t the boxer thread be a better place to post this exact question? I’m sure it’s already been discussed in length in there already, and if not you’re much more likely to get meaningful help there from other boxer players than you will get here.
Whoa, hold on there man… part of getting better is actually giving away your strats and knowledge of matchups and seeing if someone can break or counter them. You can’t hide your tricks forever. Anyway, I have no problem going into any thread and just asking for help. Even threads that are for characters that counter mine. I’m sure he’ll make his way to the Boxer thread if he hasn’t done so already but I really don’t think it was such a terrible idea for him to come here as well. Now help the man already LOL.
You’re right of course, i’m a big believer in sharing the knowledge, that wasn’t the reason i posted that. IMO hiding your tricks just keeps the competition artificially low. I just think that the boxer thread will have better info for that kind of query than the honda thread from players who know what works and how to use it. I have no idea of what he should do with boxer to beat honda. Now if the dude wants some info on what i use as honda to beat boxer so that he can develop his own strategies against honda’s toolset, that’s a different story.That i can help with…
For what it’s worth, I can tell you what my strategies are for the matchup, and what fucks me up from boxer if it’s of any value. Stand jabs to beat my torpedoes is really good, just spam it really fast, and those damn invincible buffalo headbutts seem to cause me problems so try them out, but generally close HHS and buttsplashes to counter as well as ochio as often as i can get close are my best friend in that matchup. Don’t turtle with boxer, he’s a rushdown oriented character, but honda is a defensive tank, so learn to be tricky and unpredictable. I will use far sweep a lot to punish boxer or keep him scared if he tries to walk up to close in on me and jab headbutt or splash, or just cr.Jab to beat rush punches to close space if i see them coming. I play this match kinda defensively, wait and look for an opening, hit and run and then turtle up and wait for another opening. I can zone boxer easily, and i have lots of rushdown mixup options as long as i stay out of range of his throw headbutt. I’m sure the boxer player can punish HHS pretty easily if it’s used carelessly, cause of the way it was nerfed in HDR, it will be rare that honda players stick that one out from any distance away versus boxer though. Ditto with the fierce torpedo, it’s too easy for boxer to punish with mashed jabs.
On my defence, Jab headbutt and lk/mk splash on wakeup will get me out of a lot of trouble if i get knocked down versus boxer, so expect them on wakeups and be careful of trying meaty attacks. Try baiting and punishing sometimes instead. I don’t know boxer’s normals too well, but jab headbutt from honda has invincibility and huge priority as a reversal, so if you’re doing a meaty on hondas wakeup you better be sure your attack will cut it.Also a splash has loads of invincible frames that i can use to beat a rush if i anticipate, so don’ be too predictable. My main strategy will be to pressure with pokes and chip with hhs, bait a counter and then use torpedoes or buttsplashes to get a knockdown/reset and go for a combo or some chip damage with HHS. I’m also not too afraid to safe jump in on wakeup with honda for a meaty attack unless boxer has meter, but i don’t know if this is clever or not. Usually it just seems to result in some chip damage to boxer from HHS or a fierce torpedo and a distance reset for honda because of pushback, which is good for me and bad for boxer.
Boxer’s low rush is a bit unpredictable, and his throw/crossup mixup is tricky if you get close, but it’s dangerous to try versus stored ochio.
Tricky matchup.Good luck.I’m sure you’ll get some offers of practise games out of this thread if you want to post a game request. Honda is only one of my alternates, not my main so don’t take this as definitive by any stretch, it’s just what i use, but there will be lots of better hondas than mine willing to take you to skool and give you lots of useful tips.:tup:
I already posted in the Boxer section, and posting in your opponent’s forum wasn’t that uncommon in the 3S forums (where I came from) so I guess it was out of habit. Anyway, the Boxer forum did a great job at pointing me in the right direction. That’s where I started when I first learned that Boxer’s standing jab is better than his crouching jab at stopping Honda head butts and other stuff like that. But I feel like my problem is I don’t really have a deep understanding of the match up. I have a terrible Honda so I can’t rely on what I know so I thought I would try to gain some insight from people who play Honda regularly/well. I know what to do as Boxer, and to an extent why, but if I get a better feeling about the match up from Honda’s perspective I’ll have a better appreciation of how do deal with the match up.
So your post actually helps me a lot. Knowing how Honda deals with Boxer gives me an idea of what to look out for. And thanks for the practice offer, but I play on PSN. ~ I didn’t want to pay for XBL, but I’m kind of regretting my decision (But man do I love my MGS and blu rays).
Megaman, way to go man. So so happy for you, I know you’re probably mad you didn’t beat Choi’s Ryu, but on the up-side, it was CHOI’S RYU You beat Justin Wong!
You should be so proud, that was an awesome display of Honda knowledge.
Seems like EA was blocking too many low tiger shots. I’m not a Honda player but I’ve been able to fierce headbutt through the low tiger shots. It passes through them. Am I wrong about this or is it something not many people have discovered???
You beat Justin Wong! 