Ahah frame advantage.
TO THROW ANOTHER FIREBALL OF COURSE!
^^
Or walk up and overhead…or walk up and Rushing Gut Punch…or cr.:mk: XX :hp: Hadouken…or something else that I didn’t mention. There are a ton of options that tactic provides. Linking from :lp: Hadoukens is nice. 
I just wouldn’t recommend it against a Honda with a charge, though.
It’s a really tough match for honda anyway D:
I guess that jab headbutt helps a bit.
Ryu seems easier than Chun or especially Guile. It seems I have to jump straight up over every fireball and barely lean forward or i get flashkicked. The matches take forever and its still an inconsistent win. With Ryu I just have to worry about getting hit by a second fireball occasionally if I jump over the first.
Dumb question - I don’t play with Honda so forgive me.
How does one store a 360 motion? (O. Throw)
Oicho throw isn’t a 360.
The motion is…
:r::df::d::db:+:p:
Do the motion and hold :db:, when your opponent comes in range, press :p:.
Honda’s Oicho throw isn’t a 360 motion, it’s basically a half-circle back. Input f, df, d, db, then hold either of db, b or ub for as long as you like. When you get close to the enemy, hit a punch button, and the Oicho throw will come out.
Edit: Beaten to it by OJ 
I didn’t know that you could store it by holding any direction that includes back, though. Once again, Thelo is the man, man!
Time for some theory fighter! Here’s my current opinion as to Honda’s matchups:
vs Ryu: 3-7
I think Ryu is Honda’s worst matchup overall, mostly because of his awesome game at fullscreen. Ryu throws a fireball, Honda reacts, then Ryu can technically cleanly beat any of Honda’s reactions with a well-placed walk-up sweep. Ryu also gets a major bonus out of his super, which can totally shut down Honda - once he gets it, suddenly Honda can eat 40% damage for doing anything, including his super.
Also, this might just be me, but I fall for Ryu’s fake fireball all the frigging time :sad:
vs Ken: 3.5-6.5
Ken is also pretty tough for Honda. He has a slightly crappier version of Ryu’s fireball-sweep trap, but to make up for it he has the extrawesome jab shoryuken, which can stop Honda’s pressure dead at any goddamn point and is pretty tough to punish. A lot of fighting Ken is waiting for him to randomly screw up, but if Ken decides to not screw up, then Honda can wait for a pretty long time.
Still, I think Ken is slightly easier than Ryu for Honda, because his super can’t match the devastating Ryu Super Fireball. It’s too tempting for Ken to randomly blow this, and he’s mega vulnerable on whiff.
vs Akuma: 3.5-6.5
See Ken. Air fireball is almost a non-issue in Akuma vs Honda, because Honda can either jab headbutt or forward buttslam through them and fuck up Akuma, and the air fireball does no damage anyway. Yeah Akuma can red fireball to screw up Honda’s jab headbutts, but the red fireball has stupid recovery, so Honda gets a free hit if he guesses the red fireball correctly, even from fullscreen I think. And Honda getting a free hit on Akuma is extra powerful, so in practice, Akuma doesn’t really get to spam red fireballs. Like with Ken, the jab shoryuken and his fireball+sweep traps are the real threat here.
Akuma gets a stamina penalty so he should be easier than Ken, but his super is extra good, so it balances out.
vs Dee Jay: 3.5-6.5
Honda’s old nemesis is back, and he means business. Dee Jay has all the punch of Ryu’s fireball-sweep traps, his slide stuffs a million things, his Max Outs have incredible hitboxes, great pushback, and come out really fast, and he can do fake Max Outs with one of his crouching punches which I totally fall for every time. On top of that, if he ever lands a combo, the easily-dizzied Honda is in deep shit.
There’s only two things that prevent Dee Jay from being Honda’s #1 worst matchup. #1 is that unlike the shotos, he can’t rapid-fire his projectiles, so Honda does have some breathing room. #2 is that Honda can totally neutralize his wakeup reversal upkicks with a well-placed crouching :hk: (if Dee-Jay tries to wakeup upkick, it will completely whiff against Honda’s crouching :hk:, leaving him open for punishment), so at least Honda has a solid position when he knocks Dee Jay down.
vs Guile: 4-6
Yes, Guile has an advantage in this matchup. Yes, his Sonic Boom + Flash Kick traps can be troublesome for Honda. But something important to realize is that Guile’s Sonic Booms are not that good, especially compared to Dee Jay’s Max Outs. They have a tiny hitbox, they have little push back, and they come out slowly enough that Honda can base his entire matchup on the reaction buttslam: Honda gets to midrange, waits for a sonic boom, then as soon as it comes out, he buttslams through it.
That technique alone brings the Honda-Guile matchup to very manageable levels for Honda. Both players must have a very patient, reactive style in this matchup, and avoid random jumps at all costs. Guile still has the advantage if he knows how to deal with this (anticipation jump attacks beat the buttslam, crouch :hp: can trade with it), but Honda has tools of his own to counter that (floating punch over the boom -> :hp: slaps, anticipation :lp: headbutt), so at high levels it becomes more of a mind games situation.
vs Chun Li: 5-5
Chun Li has a surprising amount of moves that work well here. She can do a variant of the classic shoto fireball trap (throw a fireball, then either sweep jump-ins or walk-up throw jab headbutts), she can lightning kick basically everything, her jump kicks have amazing priority and will stuff Honda’s specials most of the time. Basically as long as she’s not backed into a corner, she can do reasonably well.
She’s totally fucked if she backs into a corner, though. Her upkicks totally suck, too, so on knockdown, Honda can have a lot of fun doing a million buttslams, if he delays them just long enough to avoid the reversal frame. In general, Honda can also jump on her mid-fight much more safely than against most of the cast. I considered putting this matchup as Honda’s advantage, but the last time I did that, I was kicked out of the Evo ST tourney by a Chun Li, so I’ll wait to see more high level Chun Li players before saying more on this.
vs Sagat: 5.5-4.5
Sagat looks tougher than he really is. You’d think that he could fireball-trap Honda to death, but the truth is that he is so big that he’s constantly vulnerable to a jumping :hp:, and almost constantly vulnerable to :lp: headbutts. Still, one dizzy is all it takes for Sagat to drain Honda’s lifebar to almost nothing, and he still does great at maximum range. Honda just has to watch out for that dizzy, and play super defensive every time he gets hit to avoid it.
Also remember how that :lp: headbutt hits Sagat out of fireballs by just stepping a bit away from the corner before doing it, and how jumping :hp: between rapid-fire fireballs can hit Sagat surprisingly easily, even from fullscreen.
vs Balrog (Boxer): 6-4
Honda’s key move here is the sweep. Sweep at round start is totally safe, beats Balrog’s rush punches and headbutts, and in general it’s an awesome move to interrupt whichever rush Balrog might want to do, or on Balrog’s wakeup. Balrog can just mash crouching :lp: all day and bait Honda to do anything, while charging a turn punch, but Honda can mash hands all day to build meter and stop rushes too.
What breaks the symmetry is Honda’s :hp: HHS, which he can use to break the standoff with chip damage. Balrog should be devastated by this, but in practice, his awesome super evens the matchup a bit. Honda should just drop everything and just block when Balrog gets his super, seriously.
vs Blanka: 6.5-3.5
I used to put this matchup as 7-3, but I’ve lost too many times to fake roll -> bite to maintain that. Still, this matchup is dead stupid for Honda: when Blanka jumps or rolls at you, :lp: headbutt, and otherwise, just hold down-back. If you block a Blanka ball, :hp: headbutt back to even out the chip damage.
Blanka only has two real threats here: fake roll into bite, and the crossup jumping :lk: dance. Both can be neutralized with a :lp: headbutt before they start, but Honda has to be awake. If Blanka gets into the crossup dance, attempt a stored oicho on the first two, then jump :lp: your way to freedom against any following jump :lk:s - you’ll typically have enough frame advantage to pull it off then. If Blanka ever gets a life lead somehow, headbutt him right after he lands from any jump for some chip damage, or build some free super with :lp: hands if he stays unmoving at fullscreen.
vs Vega (Claw): 7-3
This matchup is pretty bad for Vega mostly because of one thing: when Vega gets knocked down, if Honda does a crossup against waking up Vega, Vega can not practically avoid taking damage, because he loses his horizontal charge on crossup. Honda also gets out of wall dive shenanigans for free with the :hk: buttslam, and can :lp: headbutt any wall dive that doesn’t touch Honda’s wall first, which knocks down Vega in the perfect position for a free Honda crossup splash -> ochio or a crossup :hk: buttslam.
As if that wasn’t bad enough, Honda usually gets the advantage if they trade hits, and he can :mk: buttslam out of Vega’s block strings whenever he feels like it. It’s easy for Honda to get life advantage in this matchup, and even easier to keep it.
vs Dhalsim: 7-3
:hk: buttslam -> HHS. All the time. It works.
You can also :lp: headbutt sometimes, if you get bored.
vs Fei Long: 7-3
Honda’s key move here is reaction :mk: buttslam against chicken wing: it beats it clean and puts Honda in a great position for a crossup buttslam dance. It beats the rekka punches, too, but you’re not going to be able to react to those fast enough. Fei Long’s best chance here is actually to just spam standing :hp:, which interrupts every Honda special move. It does lose to Honda’s far sweep, though, so for a “best strategy”, it’s not that effective.
Honda should just turtle, build super with :lp: hands, and :mk: buttslam every time Fei Long gets too close. Against standing :hp: spammers, random jump-ins also work decently.
vs Zangief: 7-3
:hp: HHS advancing + :lp: headbutt against jump-ins wins most of this matchup for Honda. There is only one thing Zangief can reasonably do against this: spam crouching :lp: to stop the HHS and headbutts, then when Honda moves forward to far sweep Zangief, Zangief can jump-in safely, then try to tick SPD from a distance. Unfortunately for Zangief, that’s pretty hard to do. Unfortunately for Honda, when it works, it’s devastating.
vs Bison (Dictator): 7-3
Bison has no reversal and no real anti-air, meaning that one knockdown is all it takes for Honda to bring it home with repeated tick Oichos and buttslams. Bison’s only chance is to use standing :lp: to counter the headbutt, and use unreliable circus tricks to somehow confuse Honda. Even his trusty block strings won’t do much to Honda, who can just :mk: buttslam out of them whenever he gets bored, at basically zero risk.
Bison’s headstomp is definitely one of his most useful moves against Honda, but to even consider winning the match, he must convert that headstomp into a crossup dizzy combo, which is easier said than done against an awake Honda.
vs T. Hawk: 8-2
:lp: headbutt everything. GG.
vs Cammy: 8-2
Honda’s HHS is maddeningly effective here, it will beat or trade with most of Cammy’s stuff. For instance, as far as I’m aware, an round opening of :lp: HHS will stuff every single Cammy opening, including her Thrust Kick. If Cammy ever gets into a neutral jumping :mp: mood, it’s fairly easy to randomly :hp: headbutt one of them, or just jump on her. Or for even more fun, just get a life lead and stand in your corner, putting out :lp: HHS all the time and using your super whenever she leaves the ground.
I just want to point out that offline, or on 2df/ggpo level netcode I can reaction jump fierce the reaction-buttslam very consistently. Its one of the more frustrating aspects of the good-but-not-stellar HDR netcode.
Interesting, I always figured it was basically too fast to do it on reaction. Seems Guile has a bigger advantage than I thought.
I disagree pretty seriously with a lot of those win rates and matchup descriptions. I don’t really have time to go into it in a detailed way, but here’s a quick fly-over:
Ryu: 3.5-6.5
You need to do more controllable jumping fierce, Ryu can do even less about it now than he could in ST because you can control yourself so much better. Your wheel of options once you get to mid-range is also stronger than before considering that there are now ranges where you can actually jump toward with jumping short and considering jab headbutt’s buff. I think there are matchups where Ryu’s fake fireball is pretty annoying, but I don’t think this is one of them.
Ken: 3-7
Honda’s worst matchup now, in my opinion. I’d say he actually has a stronger fireball game than Ryu because his fireballs are slower (aka harder to jump over), his fireball recovery is like a frame faster than Ryu’s, and his fierce dragon punch can nail you even out of your neutral jumping fierce from a million miles away. It’s also now harder to pressure Ken on his wakeup because reversal wakeup super and 1st-frame fierce dp are real options now.
Akuma: 3.5-6.5
Yeah, air fireballs and red fireballs aren’t a big deal. Against Honda he’s basically Ryu with worse stamina and better options on his wakeup.
DJ: 4-6
He killed Honda in ST largely on the strength of how wide and slow maxout is (aka very hard to get over), but the new floating fierce takes care of that. You can actually jump toward with short from some locations now. You can still harass him very effectively on his wakeup, and you’re considerably better in footsies with jab headbutt.
Guile: 4-6, maybe 4.5-5.5
Everything you mention in your run-through was already possible in ST. The only reason I don’t think this matchup is even is the roundhouse flash kick, which lets Guile tag a jumping Honda from a considerable distance in some situations and which lets him flash kick Honda out of his footsie range where previously Honda was safe, but those are rare things and really unsafe; Guile really doesn’t want to whiff a roundhouse dp that puts him midscreen where your fierce grab loop can destroy him. You can jump toward at some ranges, you can neutral jump much more effectively, and you’re more of a threat in footsies with jab headbutt and easier fierce slaps.
Chun: 4-6, maybe 4.5-5.5
Despite pretty considerable changes to both characters, I think this is mostly the same matchup as before because those changes don’t come into play too much in this particular matchup. Chun’s retarded air normals are still retarded, and since they were a bigger problem than her fireball to start with, your anti-fireball tricks aren’t as important in other matchups; she kept you out largely on the strength of those normals, and nothing was done to either character to make those things less effective. Her worse super is a bit less of a threat, but not by much. You can still do really well up close, and your jab headbutt and fierce slaps make you slightly better in footsies. A bit more even, but not that much.
Sagat: 5-5, maybe 5.5-4.5
N Sagat was a pretty even matchup before, and R Sagat got better at zoning and keepaway and R Honda got better at getting in. Man, I wish R Honda had gotten O Honda’s sick crouching strong hitbox, which actually beat Sagat’s jumping roundhouse. Oh well.
Boxer: 5-5, maybe 4.5-5.5
I thought Boxer beat Honda by a little bit in ST, and neither character really got changed all that much for this matchup. None of Honda’s changes really helps him out here. The changes to Boxer’s headbutt and throw don’t really matter here. Basically the only significant difference in this matchup is that Boxer’s super does a bit less damage, which makes this matchup only slightly better.
Blanka: 5-5
I thought it was 6-4 for Honda before, but now you can’t punish horizontal ball, so Blanka can actually do ball combos or even random balls. Your juggling super comes in every once in a while, but Blanka can totally outprioritize it with half his normals anyway, so it’s not a big deal.
Claw: 6-4
More or less even in ST, but now Claw can’t do repeated wall dives, which were a big deal for him in this matchup. Fake wall dive is unimportant. Your super can juggle as an antiair and your hands are a little better at getting around. Slightly better matchup for Honda.
Dhalsim: 6-4
Definitely not true that you can buttslam to hands all day. Pretty even in ST, and now you do better because of floating fierce, jumping short (which beats stuff, yay), and juggling super. I still want to see a Sim use his new yoga blast well here.
Fei: 6.5-3.5
Basically the same matchup except Fei is a tiny bit better. Chickenwing’s nerf doesn’t really matter much for the Honda matchup. Fei can now rekka from basically half screen, which helps a little bit, and his super is better. Whatever.
Zangief: 7.5-2.5, maybe 7-3
This is one of the few matchups where I’m pretty disappointed with the changes. The new lariat hitboxes change some things (like for example Honda can’t do far jumping roundhouse to slaps for free block damage anymore), the hop is good as an occasional shenanigan to get over your roundhouses, and crouching jabs beat slaps a little more consistently, but Gief mostly just got tricks instead of real tools. Your juggling antiair super is good. Slightly more even, but not by much.
Dictator: 5.5-4.5, maybe 6-4
No ochio loop, Dictator has an actual reversal, standing jab beats headbutt, and this is one of the few matchups I actually feel the worse slaps hitbox because of Dictator’s standing forward/roundhouse. In other words, you’re worse up close and you’re worse at getting in, and Dictator is better at getting away and zoning. I didn’t think it was as lopsided in ST as some people did.
Hawk: 6-4
This is probably the most overblown matchup in ST/HDR. I wrote a pretty detailed post on why I don’t think this matchup is all that bad somewhere else, but suffice to say I thought it was totally doable before and only got better. I like the O Hawk normals, O Hawk dp,and N Hawk super, it’s a combination of the best things Hawk had going in ST. The new dive is good in this matchup, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s a huge deal that it doesn’t knock down, since I don’t think knock downs are too important for Hawk in this matchup anyway, but I do think it’s a big deal that it’s safe on block. Worse slaps hitbox means R Hawk’s crouching jabs beat it for free and his dp trades at the worst.
Cammy: 7-3, maybe 7.5-2.5
Meh, the slaps have a slightly worse hitbox, so that makes them a bit more manageable for Cammy. Her drill is a bit better. You have a better antiair super. Slightly better for her, but really not all that much. I didn’t think this was the gigantically lopsided victory it’s often portrayed as in ST anyway, though.
Hm, I guess I ended up spending a lot of time on this heh.
Doesn’t seem like you disagree that seriously 
I’d like to see what Hawk and Dhalsim can really do, though - it’s not like I’ve played a lot of them!
And yeah, nobody agrees with me on Honda-Blanka. :sad:
Hey guys, after working on this thing for at least a month, I think I may finally have a finished FAQ. But, I need your help in checking my work.
Check out these combos. I know some of them may not be all that practical, but what I really need to know is whether or not they work. Use the following key as you read.
, = Link Combo
- = Chain Combo or Rapid-Fire Chain
XX = 2-in-1 or Special/Super Move Cancellation
NE = Negative Edge
MP = Motion Partitioning
CP = Charge Partitioning
KC = Kara (Empty) Cancellation
RC = Renda (Rapid-Fire Chain) Cancellation
SC = Super Combo
TT = Tick Throw
@ = Dizzy Combo
R@ = Re-dizzy Combo
ToD = Touch of Death Combo
Basic Combos:
- Close strong, Hold or Throw (TT)
- Close strong, close jab
- Close strong, crouch roundhouse
- Crouch short XX Fierce Sumo Headbutt
- Close strong, stand fierce
Intermediate Combos:
6. Close strong, Jab Hundred Hand Slap
7. Jump fierce, crouch short XX Fierce Sumo Headbutt
8. Jump roundhouse, close strong, Jab Hundred Hand Slap
9. Close jab, close strong, close fierce
10. Jump fierce, crouch jab XX Fierce Oichio Throw (TT, ToD)
11. Crouch short, crouch short XX Fierce Sumo Headbutt
12. Close strong, crouch short XX Jab Hundred Hand Slap
Advanced Combos:
13. Cross-up Belly Flop, close jab, close strong, close fierce.
14. Cross-up Belly Flop, crouch short, crouch short XX Fierce Sumo Headbutt
15. Cross-up Belly Flop, close strong, crouch short XX Fierce Hundred Hand Slap
16. Cross-up Belly Flop, crouch short, crouch short (CP) XX Oni Muso SC
There are also:
Jump in Fierce (Or roundhouse), crouch short, Fierce HHS (In my opinion it’s easier to do without the second short)
Cross-up Roundhouse, crouch short, fierce HHS
Cross-up Roundhouse (Or belly flop), close jab, close jab, jab HHS
Cross-up Belly Flop, Crouch Short (Or Jab) (TT) Ochio
The combos that end in Fierce HHS have an option for Ochio after the hands stop.
7 also works with Roundhouse.
I also typically TT Ochio with crouch short, crouch jab, and close standing short (looks funny as hell.)
13 and 14 don’t work against everyone. I know they work against Guile & Dhalsim, possibly others but I haven’t had the time to work out which characters yet. I’ll work on it tonight for you.
Also it might make sense to list which characters can be crossed up after the hug, and which characters can be crossed under after the hug. I’ve been meaning to make a list of those for myself, I’ll do that for ya to.
Honda Hug/Crossup Hug/Cross Under & 4-Hit Combo Chart
- The following are my own tests, if you spot an error, let me know and I’ll verify and fix the table.
The 4-hit combo I’m referring to is #13 from above. Cross-up Belly Flop, close jab, close strong, close fierce.
Hug/Over RH Hug/Under 4-hit
Ryu No Yes No
Honda No Yes Yes
Akuma No Yes No
Blanka No Yes Yes
Guile Yes Yes Yes
T. Hawk Yes Yes Yes
Fei Long No Yes Yes
Boxer No Corner Only Yes
Sagat No Yes No
Ken No Yes No
Chun Li Yes (*) Yes No (#)
Zangief Yes (**) Yes Yes
Dhalsim Yes Yes Yes
Cammy No Corner Only No
Dee Jay No Corner Only No
Claw No Corner Only No (#)
Dic Yes (*) Yes No (##)
* - Right side is more reliable.
** - Left Side Only / ~40% reliable
# - Whiffs the second hit.
## - Last hit whiffs.
I need some Honda help! I feel my Honda does fairly decent against most fireball / projectile characters, but I have the most trouble with DeeJay. DJ’s fireball / sweep method kills my medium range game against him. If I can get in close enough, standing fierce kick works well and the ocassional jump-into short kick works well if timed with perfection so as to combo, but in the end the very good zoning DJs give me fits.
What are some methods I should look into to counter this more effectively?
Thanks!
Dee Jay is pretty tough for Honda!
There are basically three techniques I mostly use as Honda vs Dee Jay, and you’ve already got one of them (jumping short kick over the projectile to beat his sweep).
-
When at midrange, use the reaction buttslam to beat his projectile-upkicks trap: just wait until he throws a projectile, then buttslam through it on reaction. Dee Jay won’t be able to upkick you because he lost his down charge to throw the projectile, so your buttslam is mostly safe.
-
When Dee Jay wakes up and he doesn’t have a super, do a down+HK sweep from the max distance - it’s totally safe since his upkicks will fly over your head if he tries to reversal. His super beats that, though.
The rest is just basic Honda vs fireball character play: from fullscreen, vary your approach between walk-up blocking, jab heatbutts, forward jumping short, neutral jumping fierce and the occasional buttslam, and when you’re close, unleash your usual Honda tricks for the win.
You can also try an anticipation jab headbutt from midrange every now and then, just to keep Dee Jay’s nerves tense, but make sure to keep them infrequent because they can be upkicked on reaction.
I think I have a couple of Honda vs Dee Jay videos stashed somewhere, I’ll try to dig them up.
Good post! Thanks for the tips! I’ve found playing solid DeeJay’s it’s important you keep mixing things up so as to your opponent doesn’t see you doing only one of two things, and that’s either playing very aggressively trying to get-in, or playing very defensively waiting for the right moment… neither of which I’ve found to be effective against the better DJs I’ve played. I’ll need to keep mixing things up.
Thanks again!
Here’s a casual Honda vs Dee Jay game I played recently, maybe it’ll give you ideas:
[media=youtube]vo9hLWsX7dI&feature=channel_page[/media]