Yeah, sorry. I should add the caveat that I’m talking about Jumping Torwards, not Jumping Neutral.
- James
Even jump straight up fierce over projectile isn’t as safe as you think, depending on the distance. A number of characters can nail you out of it. Guile can nail you with jump RH or fierce for example. Ryu/Ken/Sagat can hit you with their jumping roundhouse.
damn. Thanks for that
Facing good shotos or guiles is really tough. They DO NOT budge. With average level players, they can’t continue to fight off my constant pressure game…they buckle under pressure.
Jab headbutt is usefull only to scrubs. Against a pro, he’ll space himself perfectly and walk forward then C.roundhouse all day to headbutt.
Sumo splash? just walk back and roundhouse or simply DP my sumo ass
very tough :sad:
But hey…its soooo satisfying getting a round in, atleast
The Jab Headbutt still isn’t useless. Smart Shoto players know when the Jab Headbutt isn’t a threat to them, so they will intentionally throw Fireballs when they know you can’t Jab Headbutt safely. But there are DEFINITE situations where you can still use it. So jut because you’ve found yourself swept a bunch when doing the Jab Headbutt, don’t write it off. Instead, figure out the situations that it is happening to you and stop using it only there.
Basically, the rule is to never use it in Frame Disadvantage. If Ryu makes you block a Fireball and throws another one, you have enough time to Jab Headbutt through it. But the problem is he’s already almost out of his delay by the time you can start it because of the Block Stun from the first Fireball. However, if you are a screen away and you are both at “Neutral” so no one has any Frame Advantage, you can Jab Headbutt from a screen away almost as soon as you see Ryu throw a Fireball (again, Fakes will hurt you here, but that’s mind games, son. ^_^). So if you keep that in mind, the Jab Headbutt can still work for you pretty well.
The other side benefit is that the Jab Headbutt requires early reaction from Ryu whereas Butt Slams require late reactions from Ryu, and the Floating Fierce requires MIDDLE reactions from Ryu. Having all three options really can mess with Ryu, so if you switch between them, it can make for a confusing fight. If Ryu expects a Jab Headbutt, throws a Fireball, and chases it and see you not do the move, he’ll think,“Okay, he’s not gonna Jab Headbutt,” and you suddenly do the Buttslam through the Fireball late, it can throw off his timing. Mixing up all three help.
In fact, the one video I saw between Thelo and Sirlin is a perfect example of all of this. Peep this:
[media=youtube]esOzaSLhWmo[/media]
Go to the 6:00 minute mark and watch the fight. Thelo does a GERAT job mixing it all up and keeping Sirlin guessing. Sirlin misses a couple of opportunities to sweep the Jab Headbutt, but it happens because Thelo keeps mixing up his options. Doing that increases the chances of Sirlin making small errors, which is all Honda needs to get in for the kill oftentimes.
By the way, Thelo, was that Oicho at 7:45 that basically ended the fight a Stored Oicho?
- James
Isn’t every ochio these days stored? 
Yep, as soon as I crossed up, I stored the motion and just rapped my fingers on :hp:, :mp:, :lp:, :hp:, :mp:, :lp:… so when I saw that close fireball come out, I knew it was over. :wgrin:
Great explanation on the jab headbutt, by the way! Varying your approach options is indeed the key to getting past projectile barrages from smart players :tup:
jchensor…you are a god
So is E Honda
Mash c.lk and hp at the same time, well i sorta piano lk then hp then mash both. You can s.lp, then c.lk xx hp slaps if you think they are mashing throw for free damage. Or negative edge oicho lol. If you ever get that cross up combo the damage is super retarded lol. You can even s.lp, c.lk xx hp slaps after a cross up, whatever is easier for you. Honda also has that punch combo: s.lp, s.mp, s.fp (or crouching I think). I mean realisticly no one is going for combos, but if the opportunity arises its good to know.
Yeah, I’d give the edge to Honda on this one. 
- James
I started using e.honda and wow jab headbutt is insane and the slap does so much chip dmg lol, ochio throw is one of my favorite moves in the game and its pretty easy to execute for me.
The only TRUE combo I use for honda is either super >_>
or cross up jd.mk c.lk xx mp slaps
Ochio follows the slap but it isn’t a combo
And Ken can fierce uppercut. Another thing to note with the jab headbutt. A lot of Ryu’s and Ken’s like to do crouching medium kick into RH sweep, into fireball. Do the jab headbutt after the sweep.
What I’ve been doing is choosing what I do based on whether the first hit of the cross up connects. If it hits, I do a combo (sometimes), if it doesn’t I don’t and instead go for the tick into hug or ochio, depending on who my opponent is using.
On some of the characters (Chun, Guile, Dhalsim) I go for the hug, then after the hug immediately attempt (just hold up toward) a cross up with RH, cr.LK, Ochio. If you nail a cross up into hug, then another crossup into Ochio, it does 75-80%. If it’s a character I can’t cross up like that I usually go for the ambigious cross under sweep into Ochio.
I’m trying to get the combos down for those instances where I connect a cross up hit, or when I think my opponent is going to attempt a counter throw.
:lol: ya, works great against Akuma too.
I used to piano the buttons that way too but now I’m doing them in the opposite order. (:lp:, :mp:, :hp:,:lp:, :mp:, :hp:) If you whiff and accidentally stick out a normal it’s just a jab, not a fierce. Takes some getting used to but it’s been worth it.
When shotos do c.rh->fireball you can jab headbutt even if the c.rh is cancelled into the fireball?
Ya – but I think it only works if it is LP fireball, I haven’t had a chance to fully test it yet. I did it at the Denjin tournament a few weeks ago during my match vs Valle. Muffin Man told me about it.
Well there’s no reason why a shoto would jab fireball instead of fierce off of a c.rh =\
How do you end up close to an opponent after HHS so you can ochio? HHS seems to push back most of the time. When I combo it, its on accident because I always have ochio stored.
Hundred Hand Slap pushes back much less on hit than on block, so when you hit with a :hp: HHS, you’re usually well-placed for an ochio. It doesn’t work it the opponent blocks, though, and keep in mind that while it’s surprising and often works, it’s not actually a combo.
Yep, Thelo always has the honda answers.
On hit, the slaps only hit ONCE if you don’t press punch anymore.
All the other hits that come out just miss if you hit them with the first one.
Actually, there is. If the opponent can’t get through the Fireball safely and punish Ryu, it’s actually a decent advantage because the Fireball hits later, giving Ryu more Frame Advantage after the Fireball is Blocked. For example, if you see Chun Li has no Super, you’d rather do the Jab Fireball because she can’t really do anything to it to punish you. And since it’s the slow one, you recover while she is still in Block Stun, giving you more mobility.
So it ends up that a lot of people do it by habit, so you get free passes in situations with characters like Honda with the Jab Headbutt.
- James