Remix Honda Thread

  • If Dictator fierce Psycho Crushers you in the corner, you can Ochio him 100% (though remember it will likely crossup).

  • If Dictator fierce Psycho Crushers you in the open for 3 tick damage, I like to just fierce hands him back for basically 3 guaranteed tick damage. You can fierce headbutt him back while he’s still psycho crushing if you have crazy timing, but why risk it.

  • Don’t forget that Dictator has no real anti-air! Just like against Dhalsim, your buttslams are enormously useful in this fight. Probably the worst threat to buttslams are well-timed psycho crushers, but buttslams can also beat mistimed crushers anyway. Reversal buttslam on midrange wakeup, buttslam to interrupt block strings, randomly buttslam to advance and maybe beat crushers (good!) or trade with them and you both wake up close to each other (also good!). Buttslams are deliciously abusable in this matchup! When in doubt, buttslam.

  • Also abuse Honda’s famous tick throw! No anti-air means you can get away with it a lot. Jump in with short, ochio. If your jump-in short hits late enough (i.e. while falling), your ochio will land very often! Also works to an extent with deeper splashes (jumping down+MK) but why risk it.

  • Of course, the other tick throw works very vell too. If somehow Dictator is knocked down in the corner, walk up to him, and as he wakes up, do a meaty low jab -> ochio. I like to input it as f, df, d+(push jab), db, wait for blockstun to end, release jab and quickly push-release it again. Works 100% if you’re doing it right and Dictator has no super.

  • If Dictator is running away at fullscreen, he’s very likely to try either a Psycho Crusher (easy to block, then punish) or a fast head stomp (also block, then punish). So if you can afford to turtle, block high at fullscreen, not low, or you’ll be surprised by how fast the head stomp travels!

  • Finally, as a reminder, remember that Dictator is a charge character, yet he often wants to lose his charge to attack. Be on the lookout for cues as to when Dictator loses his charge (and thus loses an option for a second), or remains charged for a while (and thus is likely to use that charge soon)

For Honda vs Blanka’s jump short -> bite, the first and best counter is to avoid having Blanka cross you up. As long as he doesn’t cross you, you can stop everything Blanka does with a well-timed jab headbutt. The key is that the jab headbutt’s startup frames are actually invincible, so it’s an ideal anti-air, and if Blanka tries to jump short you, simply headbutt it 100%.

The hard thing is once Blanka does cross you up somehow with his jump short! Here Blanka has basically two options, and you must guess the right one to escape the trap:

  • If Blanka tries to bite you, beat it with the Ooichou.
  • If Blanka tries to crossup jump short again, beat it with an early jumping jab, or in the unlikely event that you have a down charge, escape with a buttslam. Or yeah, just blocking also works.

In general, though, as Honda vs Blanka, you should try to be very defensive and do what you can to avoid being crossed up, because the jab headbutt is in theory the perfect response to every non-crossup Blanka has. Get a life lead at the start somehow, then stay charged and headbutt everything.

Chun Li’s jump kicks is yet another jump-in, so same thing, just use your jab headbutt’s invincible frames to beat it. Once Chun Li can’t jump in on you anymore, the fight is already half won. Also keep your Ochio charged at all times, because her walk-up throw is a real threat by how fast it can be.

Finally, you might be tempted to reaction jab headbutt through Chun Li’s fullscreen fireballs, but that is dangerous because she can walk-up throw your headbutt recovery 100% if she knows the trick! Take advantage of the fact that she’s the slowest fireballer in the game, and let her walk into a corner by just walking up and blocking fireballs.

Once she’s in a corner, it’s like fighting a 10x crappier version of Guile. I like to just sit charged at midrange and wait for her to do anything. If she jumps, punish with headbutt, and if she fireballs, roundhouse buttslam through it on reaction. You’re not in a hurry, and for some reason, nobody ever just stares at midrange Honda and does nothing for very long.

When Cammy is being offensive, buttslam. No, seriously, it pierces her block strings, it smacks her hooligan shenanigans, and it crushes her cannon drills. And when Cammy is being defensive, well… just sit on the other side of the screen and wait. You can throw random headbutts if you feel like it.

One thing to watch out for, though, is her jumping strong, as it beats your headbutts most of the time (obviously it doesn’t beat the invincible startup frames of the jab headbutt). If she starts getting smart with that move, jumping fierce is a good way to slap her out of the sky.

Yeah, command throws always beat normal throws. megamanpb already went through the defensive ochio, so I’ll just list some of my favorite offensive ochio tricks:

  • Jump-in short, ochio

  • On enemy wakeup: meaty low jab, ochio
    You can be reversaled between the tick and the throw for these two, but most likely the risk is in getting the tick to hit in the first place. Obviously jump-in short can be beaten with every anti-air in the game, and meaties are alwys vulnerable to reversals, but once that first hit has landed, your ochio is practically guaranteed, and you don’t even need a corner to pull them off. Especially useful against Dictator and Dhalsim, who lack real anti-airs! Don’t try these on Zangief, T. Hawk or mirror Honda, though, because they can reversal command throw you for lots of pain.

  • Fierce Hundred Hand Slap (hit), ochio
    That one is hilarious. Do the ochio motion and store it, then mash fierce to get the fierce hands. Stop mashing as soon as the hands come out! If the hands hit your opponent and he doesn’t block, wait for his blockstun to end, then hit fierce once more. Instant ochio! It’s not a combo of any sort, so it’s theorically possible to hit you between the hands and the ochio, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually been hit out of it myself. When it works, it does insane damage, nets you great positioning, and it looks flashy to boot.

  • Fierce headbutt under your opponent in the corner, ochio when he lands
    That’s less offensive and more of a desperation maneuver. Normally, you don’t willingly headbutt under your opponent, but if you happen to do it and smack your head on the corner, always input the ochio as a failsafe: if the enemy doesn’t hit you during your recovery, odds are you’ll be super close to him anyway, so might as well try to pull out a Blanka and throw him right as you recover.

  • Whiffed buttslam, ochio
    Again a shenanigan desperation move of sorts, very very unsafe to do because buttslam has a million frames of vulnerable recovery, but if you happen to whiff a buttslam right in someone’s face, input an ochio. Sometimes it works through sheer surprise, because whiffed buttslam is a bit faster to recover than blocked buttslam (since there’s no hitpause). Works best when it’s not clear for the enemy whether it’ll whiff or not, so the closer the better. When it does work, you’ll look awesome.

Ochio is best used against asswipes that want to tick throw you with some blanka/similar bullshit. If you have your ochio stored, you can piano your punches to throw them on reversal. If they do somehow land a non-pummel throw on you, it might tech anyway.

Another thing the Wiki doesn’t really mention that Honda lost is the ability to Insta dizzy after an HP ochio. It used to be land HP ochio, very quickly afterward hit them with a buttslam or a forward RH sweep and they dizzy. I think it was guaranteed dizzy for a couple seconds after the HP Ochio… I miss that tactic.

One thing also to remember is that if somebody is jumping on you from close range (like Blanka or somebody doing a splash or whatever) is you can stand fierce them. (CLOSE fierce, the chop) Very nice if you haven’t got a charge for whatever reason, usually you’ll trade.

Right now the only match I am really having trouble with is decent Ken players. The no-recovery shoryu over and over gives them a real lucky way to get damage on top of the fireballing. They can whiff it right in front of me, I try to throw them on reaction and they get a bullshit pummel throw… maybe that’s just HDR Netcode fucking me out of my Ochio but it seems to happen often enough.

I’ve always had trouble with Kens though, mostly O Ken… it seems like they buffed N. Ken and gave him some of the O. Ken fireballs so the match for me is really annoying.

EDIT: Just read the Ken wiki remix changes, I guess it’s probably more the buffing of his Strong and Fierce shoryus.

Thanks, Thelo.

Medium slaps will usually actually hit if you block a PK at mid-screen.

Butt bomb works well if you want to simply escape the head-stomp instead of trying to punish it.

Medium and short butt-bombs own blankas jump-ins for free.

A well-timed jab headbutt takes care of the rest of the situations where the butt-bomb may not work against Blanka.

Double, triple, and even quadruple rush slaps work great against both Dictator and Blanka. Just mix em up and if you get close enough, it’s almost always a good idea.

Slaps still almost always hit electricity as long as you hit at the edge of the range or use the jab. So if you are out of range for the short, adjust a little and use the medium, if too far for the medium, use fierce. The trick is not to med or fierce HHS from too close.

You can escape from Gief’s crossup splash with fierce headbutt - he simply gets out of there - it’s safer than trying to punish.

Against T-Hawk, if he does jump fierce, low jab, low jab, Typhoon, can you reversal with Ochio? I was playing against a really good T-Hawk the other day and I tried storing Ochio and pianoing strong and fierce, but he still got off the Typhoon against me. Do I have to headbutt out (i.e., Ochio reversal is not an option)? For the record, there was some lag as well.

I think it’s like the Zangief tick throws, and the low jabs push you too far for you to ochio, yet you’re still in typhoon range, so ochio after the jabs isn’t an option. Interestingly enough, reversal jab headbutt after the jabs isn’t an option either, because the starting frame of jab headbutt is throwable!

Reversal fierce headbutt is not throwable, though, so that’s pretty much your only chance to escape a perfect T. Hawk tick throw, unless the buttslams work too (I haven’t tried to reversal buttslam out of that setup yet).

I was playing a decent dictator the other day and he kept j.mp x3 my buttslams. It was pretty effective as an anti buttslam tactic.

Thanks to Thelo and all the others for the tips. =)

Tonight i had really a rough time, i did something like 22W 28L, and to my surprise i lost horribly versus a certain Fei-Long player. Basically he was able to counter all my headbutts with normal kicks/flaming kicks, only way i could damage him was with random buttslams and HHS. On the other hand i improved a lot my game vs Chun-Li (i found that i can also use F. Headbutt to zone/run away when under pressure, which helped me a lot) while still losing like 90% of the time against Blanka: seems like i need perfect timing to counter his j.LK with the j. headbutt, if i do it too early it’s full dmg and combo for him, and damn i really hate his bite throw.:arazz:

But, to be honest, the highlight of the night was me losing vs a Sagat who just jumped with fierce kick (at least i think it was the fierce one), 3-0 for him. I tried to j.headbutt, buttoslam, smash my head on the tv. Nothing worked. I was so pissed off that i smashed my pad on fhe floor, thanks god it didn’t break. :sweat:

Sagat’s jump back roundhouse is pretty godly. It beats ton of rushdown moves cleanly.

The startup frames of all the headbutts are not throwable because they are invinceable.

But the jab headbutt is throwable anyway.

AFIK the reason he is thrown out of it is that gief can be outside of it’s initial hitboxes and it doesn’t travel far enough by the time it runs out invincibility to hit Gief which = SPD.

So the SPD goes off a few frames later, but the SPD goes off just the same.

What does suprise me though is that you say the Fierce one will travel fast enough to hit him while still invinceable. I didn’t know that would work - I’m going to have to try it out!

As if honda needed to get better(found link in NW forum)

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=939066&topic=47612436

It only works on the left side… and you have to use a pad. Who the fuck plays seriously on a pad :lol:

So I have a few Honda match videos. I want to get some tips and see what I need to improve on. Should I post them in this thread, or in the match videos thread?

Lots of people…you’d be surprised.

But yeah this needs to be patched :rolleyes:

EDIT: Here is [media=youtube]gBSVd–mmto"[/media]. Imagine this technique in the hands of a top Honda player.

Anyone want Honda broken anymore? Here is walkup Ochio…and guess what…it is DEAD easy to do:

[media=youtube]OIHf_3kg_RE[/media]

Not exactly. Jab headbutt might be invincible to attacks for a split second, but it’s never unthrowable. It can be thrown by anyone from any range, not just by Gief or Hawk.

http://www.youtube.com/monkeyslayer45

it’s a lot of me losing. I was hoping i good get a few pointers of what I’m doing wrong, anything right.

what do you guys think?

I’m a bit confused on the invincibility attributes of honda’s buttsplash. I’ve noticed in some matches, when fireball characters try to score some meaty fireball chip damage from a knockdown, I’ll get stuffed in mid upwards flight? Others, i’ll sail right through them… Is my timing just off?

Short buttslam won’t go through the slower projectiles (it gets vulnerable while Honda is still low to the ground), and Akuma’s air fireball and Sagat’s high Tiger shot will likely stuff you, but otherwise, if I recall correctly, you should always be able to go through fireballs with rising buttslams.

It’s happened to me so many times… God that is gay :annoy:

You probably shouldn’t feel too bad as that DJ player had some pretty damn good reaction time to nail your headbutts like that. He also looked to have sound fundamentals. If you find players like that in the future you should definitely be wary of headbutt when you know they are charged and try other ways to get in. Also, you should try jumping in (without being obvious) with MK or HK instead of using punch buttons. Every time DJ tried to encroach on your space you should’ve jab headbutted him. And you missed a lot of potential crossup attempts (I personally like using down-MK [splash] to crossup and then a standing LP into ochio).

A good Honda player would try to corner DJ as soon as possible and keep him there. It seemed he was constantly pressuring you into a corner.