how does gief do a cross up splash on honda?
like what?
how did you get knocked down?
how did you forget about jab headbutt?
I know I’m late getting to this thread, but Honda has been my main for a long time (SF2 SNES days) so I feel obligated to chime in. The only thing I have to say is if you time it right, the headbutt will go in the opposite direction, so you can’t rely on bouncing off the opposite wall. I get people a lot on cross ups with it.
As for Honda in general, I think he’s way better. The light headbutt can be a saving grace, or your Achilles heel. I haven’t tried the jumping short to counter sweeps yet, but I can still beat fireball characters by mixing up the headbutt and butt stomp but I’ll give it a shot.
The super is so much better. It’s not awesome, but I really think it rounds him out as a player. It helps with fireball traps and using it as an anti-air counter catches people off guard as well.
As for the Ochio loop in the corner, I’m divided. I understand the reason for removing it, but T-Hawk has a couple loops, why weren’t those removed as well? I mean you still have to reversal throw, or reversal to get out of those as well. WTF? That said, I’m less bummed about it now that I’ve had a chance to play the game. I think that nerfing that was a good trade off with giving him a better super, a trip safe jumping short, and easier to do neutral jumping fierce. A lot of people can be baited after one successful Ochio in the corner. Just take a couple steps forward and crouch and wait for them to fall into Honda’s loving arms. Or a light butt stomp after you land will put you in a pretty good position to get that or the hug. And if you do the hug you can walk right up and do the tick. Usually I can get it a couple times before they get out of the corner.
Another point with the Ochio is that I’m finding I’m more successful (either my play has become better or it’s easier) with pulling it off as a reversal. I find that I regularly reversal Geif and Hawk’s 360 throws. Though I will say it’s hard finding non-scrub players on XBL…
Also on the Ochio subject, not sure if you guys know or not but Pez Man suggested I try something and it’s really worked out. When going for a reversal Ochio don’t press the buttons, release them in quick succession. It saves you from sticking a limb out and getting screwed. Whenever I land I always store it up, and press the buttons then just release them to get the reversal.
Overall I’m really happy, and I no longer groan when someone picks a fireball character. I feel like I have a chance, and that makes me want to play with him even more.
I actually prefer bounce back to bounce past. To me it’s a buff since it prevents him from getting thrown back after an oicho vs. another grappler amoung other things.
Releasing buttons on oicho’s is great, they call it the “negative edge technique” and it definatly helps vs. reversals. I also do it when going for the offensive oicho since they are more likely to do a special reverse then. In fact, I use negative+drumming on reversal throws because most people don’t fake with specials when they go for the tics and the drumming adds additional chances for the oicho to come out when they are also mashing their throw buttons.
well, gief can get it off of lariat, since it double bounces. say you throw out a random headbutt and he lariat counters. you misjudge the range on a buttstomp and fall on the lariat. its possible. and when gief gets it, headbutt isn’t going to be there once you start getting crossed.
also, headbutt isn’t going to beat everything. its not beating well timed low hitbox moves (vega’s downward claw, chun stomps) simply because you’ll be using you invincibility frames avoiding the attack and endup eating it when that wears off. in the end, its still a game of hitboxes. honda is completely invincible on startup, but during his attack frames, he’s got blue boxes. and those can be hit straight up.
headbutt isn’t an all answer tool. its a really good keep out tool, but its far from this monster move that “beats everything else”. there’s plenty of other moves with straight up invincibility that can do just as much (if not better) as jab headbutt. if you’re a honda who just sits all day, i’m sure its going to be your best friend, but the headbutt alone hardly makes any matchup a surefire win like you would make it seem.
Play quickmatch and keep winning, and you’ll start fighting better players. If you don’t lose and only play quickmatch, your caliber of opponent will increase noticeably. Avoid custom or player match.
Not true at all. You just have to find the right players. There are plenty of skilled players that play player matches.
If you jump into a random player match with strangers, you’re less likely to find a skilled opponent than you are if you do quick match with a high skill rating. The game tries to match up players with equivalent skill levels in quickmatch, not so in the other modes (it’s completely random luck of the draw otherwise). If you’re stacking the deck by playing with friends on SRK, there may be rooms in player match with some great players, but we’re talking about matches against people who are not on your friend list.
Most of the best players play in player matches. I maintain a full friends list of a good %age of the best players online and so find it easy to get into high-level matches. I advise someone looking to play strong players add to their friends list the very strongest players they can find. When someone makes you say “wow”, send 'em an add.
Hello guys! After (wasted?) years of rpgs and such i decided to get back to my first love, SF, and oddly enough i’m having a great time playing as Honda. With him i managed to achieve 100 ranked victory and even got a decent win:loss ratio, but i’m still a very noob player, don’t know a lot of things and usually i lose very badly to people with good knowledge of the game. I’ve some questions, i was wondering if you can give me some insights. 
1- I’m reading on the wiki that, as Honda, i should have the advantage fighting Dictator. My question is: how/why? My problem is that i don’t know how to counter the Psycho Crusher spam, i usually just block it and then try to jump in/HHS, but i always get some damage while blocking and seems that Dictator can always keep some range after that. It’s not like i always lose against him, but i don’t really get where is my tactical advantage. :x
2- I’ve huge problems, and often lose horribly, against Blankas who spam jumping lk and Chun-Li and his jumping mk. I’m probably doing something wrong, but jab Headbut and lk Sumo Splash don’t seem to work, and to be honest i don’t really know what do to. Vs Chun-Li is even worse, because even if i block is j.Mk, usually she follows with his big punch and then throws me. I don’t know, maybe i should just block both jumping attacks and then j.headbutt, but usually i’m cornered very fast and then raped.
3- Another super easy match-up should be vs Cammy, and again i don’t know why/how. Sometimes i win very easily, other times i’m owned.
4-How to use Oicho. This one of the best of Honda’s moves, and it sucks that i never use it. Problem is that i don’t know when i should try to use it, which moves can i beat with it, vs which characters is good ecc. Is it a defensive or an offensive tool? Does it always beat normal throws?
Sorry for the poor english and probably even for the stupid questions. 
You must headbutt the psycho crusher… unless it is the jab version of teh PC then there are other things you can do to beat that like HHands. head butt any jump in. be weary of early jumps they can wreak havok on honda. You must be having a timing issue b/c headbutt is invincible. Turtle vs Cammy do nothing headbutt everything be warned of the short cannondrills. Spamming hands works vs her as well. Oichio is great and you would use it like it is a pile driver… in close. after crossups or up close ticks.
I also wanted to add that you can headbutt low moves also. The only things that can beat the headbutt are crossups if you lose your charge and safe hits.
You beat the low attack if you hit it with your invulnerable startup frames since the jab headbutt ahs 3 hitting frames that are completly invincable.
I don’t know of any attacks that hit long enough be meaty and still last long enough to make it through all the startup and invun frames and have a hitbox that hits the headbutt while not being able to be hit by it.
I just looked at a bunch of attacks hitboxes and I did not find a single footsweep that had hitboxes extend high enough to hit the headbutt without getting hit by it also. Footsweeps don’t go that high. Pokes are more viable as they have the thickness to beat the headbutt head-on, but they don’t have the duration to be meaty and still hit when the headbutt becomes vulnerable.
You can do atacks that are meaty and recover before the headbutt hits, thus getting a block - these are safe hits.
For the experts, can you do a safe hit, and recover in time to pull out an SRK or something, thereby beating the safe-hittable wake-up attack clean?
I could be wrong, but I thought Geif’s splash/belly flop would do it…
If Gief is hitt ing on the first frame, assuming Honda keeps the charge and the headbutt even comes out, Gief will fall far enough to get caught by the invulnerable hitting frames.
Honda has 1/20th of a second where he hits everywhere he usually does, but cannot himself be hit. He is also completly invulnerable, but does not hit for the first 13 frames before that.
So for an attack to beat the wakeup headbutt, it would have to hit honda on frames 1 and 17 and somehow not be hittable by the headbutt on frames 14-16
It is possible to do a late splash against Honda that will hit the wakeup headbutt, but it is not meaty, so if Honda guesses it is coming, he can simply do the headbutt later.
The real pain is the crossup that makes it almost impossible to keep the charge. But any crossup that requires headbutt input after it crosses is a pain for the same reason. In those cases some flavors of the Butt-Bomb can work.
I’m no expert, but you yourself must think that’s it’s possible. I’m sure with the right moves it will work.
However, is that practical? I don’t think Honda has much to worry about. 
Maybe Akuma though… can Honda punish the jab dp? handslap?
No problem punishing the jab DP if it whiffs and he’s close enough. But I think it’s safe on block.
As for safe hits into reversals, it might just work.The idea would be to hit meaty and recover during the start up frames of the other moves, then initiate a move that will start invulnerable and beat the reversal in question.
I think for most moves, you would need to guess the reversal they use. For example, Honda’s fierce headbutt has 5 frames of startup, the jab has 13. So if you time the SRK to hit the jap, you’ll eat the fierce while waiting. If you aim for the fierce, you will whiff and fly above him and probably get punished.
But it’s an interesting idea in theory.
I just fought against a E.Honda player on PSN who does not have a user name under the life bar and he was really good.
Could it be a Backbone or Capcom employee?
I encountered him 4 times about and I only beat him once.
Honda vs Honda matches are stressful as heck, flinch and get your ass kicked
E. Honda - I was doing some testing with zaspacer and found that the light butt-bomb has an easier time beating the fierce PK than the headbutt does. more forgiving timing IMO. What has your experience with this counter been?
Use an anti air, or trip. Standing roundhouse is great to hit them on their way down. You might be able to get some trades with jumping straight up and using normals. Not sure how his standing jab works against those attacks but you’d be surprised how often that hits.
The other thing you can do is block and try to Ochio. If they arent good at doing combos the wont connect that second hit and you’ll get the Ochio.
To be honest, it’s one of my hardest fights too, though I usually come out on top. My worst match ups in the game are with good fireball character players. I got owned by fireball characters last night.
For Bison’s fierce psycho crusher there’s a way to punish him if he does it. If you block it all, and you are near enough to the corner, you can do the Ochio right after you block the last hit. After he crosses you up while blocking, start the Ochio motion in the opposite direction, then after you block the last hit piano the buttons and you’ll throw him. You can also do the fierce hands and hope he doesn’t block, or jumps.
Basically you should be looking for the Ochio any time you can do a throw or a reversal (and then some.) Get in the habit of always storing the Ochio. You know it can be stored right? Just do the motion and hold down away, or away. Always, always, always store the Ochio. When you do a head butt, butt stomp, jump, get hit out of something, whatever. Always store it.
Then when they come in on you make them feel like an idiot. Best matches to try it out are with Balrog (can Ochio after head butt reversal, high slide in punches), and Bison (can Ochio after scissor kick & psycho crusher.) Both of them have two moves that can easily be countered by storing the Ochio.
Piano, drum, roll the buttons when you go for it too. For reversals, use the negative edge technique and let off the buttons instead of pressing them. Prevents you sticking an arm or leg out and becoming venerable.
Couldn’t agree more. Mirror matches with Honda are teh sux.
That said, any tips for timing the counters to fierce headbutt? I’m having some trouble with that lately.
From fullscreen, it’s pretty feasible to just counter jab-headbutt a fierce headbutt on reaction. You can also use jumping short, it beats the headbutts cleanly when it’s higher than the headbutt, but it’s kind of riskier. I guess you can just spam standing jab too, but then you lose your down charge so it’s not the best option when you can afford to just out-turtle your enemy.
What I’m curious about is if there are good ways to beat mirror Honda’s hands while staying on the ground. I’m used to just buttslamming or doing jumping fierce against enemy hands all the time, which generally works well, but it’d be nice to have a backup plan.