Dhalsim still has head invincibility. The first half of the Super is high-invincible, then he becomes fully vulnerable halfway through. In ST, he was high-invincible for the whole Super.
Super <1?[29]?4 4 24[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]*[/COLOR] 45 18> = 125 *High invincibility ends
I think Sirlin did a good job on Zangief but he was a little too conservative considering he buffed a lot of the people that beat him in ST too. I thought about how I’d buff him and this is what I came up with.
Zangief vs. Honda- Punch lariat head hurtbox tweaked to ensure it stuffs headbutt 100% no questions asked. SPD active for 2 more frames to always beat reversal headbutts when tick throwing. Kick lariat has 5 more frames of feet invulnerability to help vs. HHS. The first change means I won’t have to get arthritis spamming cr. jab when I have a life lead. The second change makes safe jumping ticks a lot more effective which is something I think he needs in this MU. The third change gives a little more room to escape chip damage or go in a little deeper to lariat his face. While the third change really affects evryone, it would help more in the MU’s where he struggles in anyways like Blanka.
Zangief vs. Guile/Chun/Sim- Jump startup is 2 frames faster. Jab GH changed to 4/12/17, strong GH changed to 5/14/15, fierce GH changed to 6/16/13. Maybe slightly bigger hitbox too (depending on how bad these MU’s get). A faster jump would really help Gief get in vs. Guile and Chun. A faster jab GH makes GH on reaction a little better vs. Guile. A more active GH is useful for psychic GH’s, wakeup games, and really slow fireballs like Sim’s. Differntiating the different GH strengths is also nice.
Zangief vs. Blanka- Close jab hitboxes are bigger. It’s pretty hard to think of anything in particular that wouldn’t affect Zangief vs. someone else in unpredictable ways.
Zangief vs. Sagat- Hop tweaked to more easily go over low tiger shots. Maybe just being able to hop over them a little earlier would probably be good enough.
Zangief vs. Turtles- Running bear grab’s damage should at least be on par with his normal throws. It is the weakest grab in the game IIRC and nothing more annoying than pulling this off on someone with low health only for them to survive with enough health to block a few GH’s. I’d also like for it to have more reach at the very end of the move (enough to make hugging someone and not throwing them impossible without invincibility).
Below are the minor buffs I think he should get for some of his least useful moves.
Super- A range boost would be nice considering it is easily the least useful super in this game by a lot. If he were high tier or something I wouldn’t mind but this isn’t really all that important.
Standing Fierce- It should knockdown and do more damage. It has no purpose other than trading and it isn’t that great at it.
Close RH- The second hit should have more priority and do more damage. If you have enough time to do this move while they are in the air then it should at least do something.
I had a lot of crazy ideas like an option select super and lariat moving a little faster but I think the ones I put down would make him mid tier.
Have you played NLP OU’s Sim? Or any top Sim for that matter?
And can we please stop acting as if :lp: DP isn’t punishable? Just sweep when in range (laggy matches not withstanding) or don’t punish at all.
Rog can return any blocked jab DP with a dash straight :karate:
I still lol when someone wants to nerf jab srk, we saw what happened with fei in that regard.
Totally agreed (and Fei could really use that back, damnit). Definitely hate it sometimes (yay online), but it pretty much defines Ken, and to nerf it would definitely cripple his game plan and cost him some of his unique flavor. He still has his knee bash, it’s still quite powerful, and he now has more of a reason to actually use his other throws. Wouldn’t change a thing with him; good job Sirlin. (Would give a few characters better tools to handle situations that his better fierce SRK arc has created to compensate, however.)
Played against plenty of great Sims, and they are hard to get in on, granted. Fortunately Ken can get in as well or better than many of the cast if you’re careful, since he does have all the tools to do so. Dhalsim is one of Ken’s most difficult matches for a reason, though; along those lines, there’s no real reason Ken should ever want to get into a grappling match with someone with an equally good or superior hold/throw range. Fortunately for Ken’s matchups, Dhalsim is the exception and not the rule. Good Kens are very hard to pin down; have you played against buhilaro or wes?
Regarding Gief…it’s easy to want to make him move or jump faster, but these changes would be extremely out of flavor for him. Look at him; he’s muscle-bound compared to most of the cast. Capcom and Sirlin have done their best to preserve this. Giving him a larger throw window would do nothing against a successfully executed reversal, by the way. Making his green hand faster and/or having a bigger hitbox would make him go through fireballers way too easily. It recovers very fast and has a large hitbox; have you really found all three strengths of the move so lacking? His lariats are just fine too; they beat Honda’s headbutt pretty cleanly when used properly. Honda has way too many good tools to try to tick on him regularly with anybody! I do feel you on his running grab though; Sirlin kept the damage low to compensate for the fact that you can practically combo it off of several of his kicks, adding to the damage. In practice though, it still leaves him open to reversals and counters, and still is less practical than just getting in with his more familiar tools to set up SPDs. Definitely down for increasing the damage on it toward that of his other normal throws. Wouldn’t mind trimming back the blue hitbox on his standing normal punches at all strengths either for a better chance at hitting Dhalsim’s limbs and some jump-ins without fully committing to a lariat as well. His mighty arms should have more priority than puny shotos, right? The idea of making fierce punch knock down is pretty novel, but it would really take serious playtesting to see how it would affect the game. Cool idea though!
Buhilaro = Aniken?
Just as an aside, it is possible in HDR to reverse sim’s lk slide tick loop with kneebash, however if he mixes up lk slide tick and lk slide > db.mk. . .
Its not a complete loss if you go for the kneebash, and ken does have that nasty 0 startup hp srk. So the sim gambles with that scenario.
I think 2 frames less jump startup would be a less drastic change than the overhaul Sirlin gave to the hop. I also don’t see how it is “out of flavor” considering the direction he went with the hop as well. I mean yeah he is big dude but a 7 frame jump startup for him is pretty high considering a big guy like T. Hawk has a 3 frame jump startup (I’m pretty sure those are the right numbers although I’m not 100% sure).
Well for most reversals that would be true but E. Honda’s headbutts (aside from his jab headbutt) don’t have hitboxes until the invincibility wears off. He also stays on the ground while the invincibilty wears off so he is throwable. I’ve also thrown Hondas out of reversal headbutts plenty of times. The attacking hitbox for the invincible part of the jab headbutt is also pretty small so you could probably still SPD him provided it lasts long enough.
Well as it is now, only the jab GH is worth using. Although Sirlin’s changelist says all GH’s got -4 recovery, only jab GH actually got the -4 recovery according to Rufus’s frame data. Jab GH also is the only one with head invulnerability. All of the GH’s have the same hitbox and do the same damage, so by default 2 strengths are already lacking. The new jab GH is much better and a needed improvement but vs. Guile/Sim/Chun it still isn’t that great. Guile will always recover and have enough time to cr. mk you unless you did it before he even starts his boom. Sim’s jab fireball is so slow that anywhere past midscreen you either do it early and get hit or nullify it and eat a st. fierce. Chun’s is somewhat similar to Sim’s but she has mobility and the fireball is a lot harder to react to.
Zangief loses pretty easily to these characters so he does need help dealing with them. I can’t see how you could buff him to even out said MU’s without altering either his jumps, lariat, GH, or movement speed (or buffing him so much in other ways like SPD range that he becomes Balrog 2.0 MU wise). I think dealing with fireballers via buffing GH and his jump startup would be the least drastic for his other MU’s. I was thinking of making the GH hitboxes a little bigger only if he still struggled vs. them after the frame changes.
I know you can beat his headbutts with lariats timed as late as possible but realistically you can’t rely on it. All it would take is cutting off a few pixels at the bottom of his head for punch lariats to stuff his headbutts 100% of the time. It would certainly give me less reason to spam cr. lp like a madman when I have a life lead. Safe jumping ticks to SPD are very good vs Honda since he either loses his charge blocking high, eats the hit, or reverses out of the jump attack. Of course if he reversal headbutts to escape the jumping tick, then an option select punch lariat would beat it with my changes.
I am glad we agree on something lol.
Yeah I think his normal punches getting higher priority would help vs. jump-ins and that their lack of priority doesn’t make sense when compared to shotos. I don’t really think a fierce that knocksdown would really need that much playtesting unless it got higher priority. It has way too much lag in general to use unless you know it will hit (like vs. badly spaced and predictable jump-ins).
To be honest I thought my buffs were pretty conservative considering he is still low tier and generally loses to most characters (including low tiers who need more buffs and already beat Gief). Talking and thinking about how to balance Gief is pretty interesting though. How would you balance him differently from me? Another perspective would be interesting to hear.
As both a Zangief and Honda player, I don’t think changing the lariat to stuff the headbutt 100% of the time will make a difference in this match. I disagree that you can’t rely on the lariat to beat the headbutt when timed late. Timed late, you should always beat the headbutt. The only time Zangief should be getting hit while doing his lariat is if he mindlessly spamming lariats and even then it’s still a little dangerous as there is still a chance that the headbutt will get hit. Headbutting at Zangief is extremely dangerous as is and I normally only do it 2-3 times a round as a surprise attack or if I’m in desperation mode, which at that point should be very predictable.
But the only time Honda should be getting hit by the lariat is when he is mindlessly spamming headbutts or if Zangief baits him into it. And one of the biggest keys to Zangief winning this match is sucessfully baiting him into doing a headbutt.
There are a lot of similarities with Zangief vs Honda and Zangief vs Blanka even though the lariat can beat Blanka’s ball 100% of the time but that doesn’t really help Zangief at all because Blanka wins that match just like Honda does, because he can easily keep Zangief away from him. There is little need for Blanka to ball in that match, just like Honda. And just like in the Honda match, the only time the ball should be getting hit by the lariat is when Zangief baited him into doing it.
Sagat: I think his TU gets stuffed a little too easy, there is good amount of times when I anticipated a jump in and TU perfectly and gets stuffed. I think TU needs to get buffed in terms of bigger hit boxes, but idk maybe its my lack of knowledge/skill.
Chun Li: She my main and at first I disliked all the nerfs she gotten, but now I understand why Sirlin made them. Super and UK was stupid, so was her neckbreaker flip or whatever its called, ST Chun Li was stupid plain and simple. I like the new SBK now that I learn how to use it and apply it to my game. I also like how can time how high and how far I want to go with the old one, I also learn how to apply this to me game as well. I don’t think she needs any buff I would like super to be able to go more easily through fireballs, because at times you get caught by the end of them when your invincibility frames ends. Not sure if its cause they threw a jab fireball or I mistimed it or what, could be a combination of both.
Blanka: I think his super should go through fireballs, cause he has nothing he could use to deal with them.
Bison: I would like to see his TOD go bye bye, but it seems to not be proven as being broken so idk. However I had a good amount instances where I would outplay Bison the whole round and get hit by that crap. Also what up with cross ups in this game? Sometime when Bison and others crosses me up it seems like I have to guess which way to block, this is main reason his TOD becomes deadly in my opinion. Once again it could be my lack of skill/knowledge, because HDR is first SF2 game I just started playing competitively.
Cammy: She shouldn’t have gotta nerf at all, there is nothing broken or stupid about her in ST. Sirlin should of just kept her j.st, Cannon Drill, Thrust Kick the same, but gave her the buffs without the nerfs, she would be perfect I think.
Such wisdom… I love it.
I understand Sirlin’s logic. He didn’t want to give Cammy two safe moves like Rog had before and since he made drill so much safer he felt TK had to be toned down. I do wish he had kept J. MP the same. Although I do really like the easier hooligan input, yeah, I think had there been buffs with no nerfs, Cammy could have been seriously mid tier.
I understand your point here, but I do disagree. Sagat’s Uppercut in ST was always sort of an oddball among the other DP style moves, in that the invulnerability on startup was very brief. As a result, Sagat players learned to time that Uppercut very, very late, and even ensured that they were able to do the Uppercut out of crouching (meaning that Sagat would not stand up during the “forward” part of the DP motion) so that it could connect as deeply as possible. The tradeoff was that it did a bit more damage than most. Some might argue that all of that is a little too technical for simply connecting a safe DP against a jumping opponent, but if they changed it to be safer, it would probably also take a hit in damage. I imagine most seasoned Sagat players would prefer to keep it as is.
Dictator without TOD would be a pretty bad character.
As pennylane summed up nicely, Bison without his killer offense would immediately plummet to the low tier. Why? His defense is weak. He’s an all or nothing character. That’s why the ToD should stay.
I sometimes have dreams that Blanka’s slide goes under all fireballs like it does in SF4. I don’t know what that would do to game balance, and I don’t care. It would be awesome.
While I’m making ridiculous suggestions, I’ll also say that Blanka should have a command throw. Let’s say around the same power as the Ochio, with about the same range. He could hop on like he does when he bites, but electrocute the opponent. (I’m thinking of the SF2 anime where he does something like that to Zangeif.) Would it be broken? Probably.
I love HDR, but I feel like Blanka got a little screwed with his rebalance. Easier Electricity is great, and safe balls VS a lot of the cast is nice and all, but it would have been cool to see him get something REALLY different.
If I were to re-balance blanka, I would focus on Fireball defense and his Super. I agree with Osprey when it comes to fireballs. I wish you could either slide under them, destroy them with shock (similar to the green hand), or that the fierce rainbow roll was faster and went the distance of the whole screen (hitting the opponent on the head, instead of planting you right in front of the opponent). People would think twice before throwing multiple fireballs if you could cover that much distance and avoid a sweep trap.
Blanka’s super is awful. The start up is still slow and most skilled players know some way to cancel it, counter with their own super, or throw you. The only time it is useful is when the opponent is jumping into you, which often results in a huge risk/reward if you wiff the move input. If the super was similar to his CVS2 super, which is lightening fast, it could catch more people off guard when used at full screen distance.
I could care less about the TOD… it’s just his Jumping MK to start that TOD can be so fucking ambiguous that it’s virtually impossible to block with certainty. That IMO isn’t right.
LOL, yeah cause cammy having two safe moves = boxer having two safe moves.
Absolutely incredible that Blanka players are asking for buffs when thats nearly all they got.