LOL Yeah, I always found it funny that Sirlin added that because the best ST player in USA said that he needed it vs. the best Dhalsim in USA.
if stored ochio is taken out, hopefully ochio can be done from back to half circle forward as well as half circle back.
imo.
Bring it man! Tell Jamar and Mario and them to come too, haven’t seen those guys in a year. And I don’t play on Live sorry :tdown:
blitzfu, I like your explanation, but it seems very…wishful or perfect to me. I do agree that Honda’s torpedoes should be less safe (ie not push him off as far) on block, especially jab. Shoto sweeps were different in SFIII and A3 also due to the respective game engines; A3 had tons of escape and counter options, and SFIII had parries (and sweeps were much slower there too). HDR sweeps are plenty potent, so to be cancelable into fireballs (in SFII where fireballs and throws rule all) is excessive. Not broken, just excessive. There are much bigger things that stand out, sure, but in SFII it’s overkill.
Honda’s pretty great, and a lot of fun to play. No stored Ochio just means you’d actually have to do something to throw someone anywhere near close to you instead of get it for free. The command motion as-is fits Honda’s playstyle perfectly, as you end it in a defensive position. Torpedo…see previous.
So…what about Gief? He feels so much better; I don’t see anything else he should have except possibly a bit more stamina. Seriously though, for being ranked so low, I think Sirlin did an outstanding job with him.
You might as well make Dhalsim’s limbs punishable on block. Sweep->fb is 40% of a Shoto’s game.
@Studtrooper
Balrog has more brainless shit than Ryu could dream of. If Ryu loses sweep cancels, then Balrog low rush should be punishable on block or be slowed down to SF4 speeds
OMG I hate boxer rush down.
I still hate how the presumed top tier is mostly made up of boss characters. Yeah I said it. Deal with it.
No sweep into hadouken is a sufficient condition for a SF game to suck. It is already bad that it has been made harder to walk up and do it because of the longer window for SRKs.
I’m really starting to get annoyed at how everyone is saying that the fake fireball is so omni-potent. Not being in such a rush and actually listen for Ryu to actually say “HADOUKEN!” solves a lot.
No he can’t. At least from my experience. If a shoto sweeps xx fireball there is absolutely nothing Honda can do to escape inbetween that sequence. Believe me I tried.
It does work actually. Try it out! It works as a good fakeout sometimes. Jump in after knockdown, do a half circle back and hold back, and while still in range press a punch button.
Edit: Never mind, misread your question. That would be cool though. Not worth trading stored ochio but still cool.
Could you redo that first sentence as an if-then? I have trouble sorting out necessary and sufficient. Really though, you popped in with a logic statement? 
I’d give up stored ochio and safe jab headbutts for some of his superior SSF2 normals like s.fp, j.mp, c.lp, c.mp and lk/mk/c.fp trips. Honda’s normals are garbage in ST. His footsies game boils down to s.hk, slaps and stored ochio to punish flubbed block strings, which is very boring to me. He was a much more dynamic character in earlier SF2 games
How is it wishful or perfect? Do you not agree that there are solutions to getting around a sweep into Hadoken?
That’s very true.
I should have specified from the sweep’s max range. Sorry, my bad. Up close, sweep into Hadoken is a combo, and cannot be escaped by a reversal as the character will still be in blockstun. But from Ryu’s max range (mid to max for Ken as his Hadoken is slower), it can be punished. Try it from the sweep’s max range and it WILL work. I’ve done it plenty of times. It is hard to do in a real battle, and is based more on anticipation rather than reaction, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
Old SBK start-up invincibility definitely needs to be reinstated. Chun’s anti-air was already weak in classic ST.
I wouldn’t complain.
Since projectile turtling is by far her biggest weakness, I’d like to see different trajectories for the hooligans. Fierce keep the same, strong less horizontal distance but more vertical distance, jab even less horizontal distance and even more vertical distance. The only viable uses for the jab and strong hooligans are for dodging projectiles, anyway.
As a final tweak, short = cancel hooligan (note that jab and strong hooligans would result in far less forward motion than the fierce hooligan), forward = slide, roundhouse = grab. Obviously, it shouldn’t be possible to cancel or slide until the apex of the hooligan has been achieved.
From max max range I’ve done it a few times (mostly with balrog).
About Blanka slide, it can be improved slightly, in way you have to time the slide exactly to pass under a hadouken (It works like that in the DJ matchup). But the end of it needs to be as vulnerable to jabs as it is now or Blanka footsies would be just dumb. Slide or Ball, 50-50, not fun.
About shotos cancelable sweep. Sure the good shotos dont whiff sweeps, because they are punishable on whiff. They dont whiff fierce DPs too.This means it’s not abusable like Sagat’s st. short, that they could just throw it out, mindlessly.
The shotos need it in most matchups, that’s why the shoto players here dont accept that idea.
For Boxer, I think he should take extra damage from his rush punches from a properly timed DP or normal similar to how Blanka takes extra damage from his ball.
I also think Blanka ball shouldn’t take extra damage. Give that to Honda’s headbutt instead.
Wait a minute…I smell Guy’s Bushin Throw!!! 
Myself, I like the current angles she has on the Hooligan Combo, but I definitely agree with you that she should go higher on the jab and strong versions. If she just took off faster in the current directions and flew a bit higher on the jab and strong versions, I think those versions would become a whole lot more viable.
But here’s my question, Milo, don’t you think Cammy needs a Hooligan Combo option that includes stopping or drastically changing her forward motion while in it? While I love the last suggestions on how to tweak it, none of them would save her from a turtle that would just anti-air her. Even Guy has his Elbow Drop. So…why couldn’t Cammy have a…(here it comes)…CvS2 Dive Kick? 
Like you said, though, you could only activate it at the peak of the move. No instant overhead stuff…though I do think overheads are a viable tool for cracking turtleshells. The great thing is that you could just use her slide animation for it, so no new animation needed.
(Editor’s note: This is something I mentioned waaaaaaaaay back when this thread started.)
Who said it’s omni-potent? It’s just really good. Listening for the sound is also not really feasable in a busy tournament setting with a whole bunch of crowd noise. And say it’s possible, delaying your jump to the sound instead of the animation could mean you already missed your opening.
It’s not unbeatable. But it’s a really dumb move and incredibly strong. Why buff the very thing that ryu already is insanely good at?
Reading posts above, all I would give Cammy is a spinning knuckle that actually has a use. I mean, seriously - you’re better off NOT doing the move at all in a match. How retarded is that?
What about making SBF faster?
Y’know if anyone has the ability, although I doubt anyone has the time. Why aren’t we modding a mugen engine like this. Take ST and mod the hitboxes and frame data, so that we can actually test this stuff out?