Air block definitely helped.
yeah st is real grounded and they turn it on it’s head. air parries in 3s made them basically useless.
Grog! I’m taking HDR in that tourney of yours! And join the WWL
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That’s what i’m talking about!**
The website is currently down but we are working on it!
Don’t get me wrong; I do agree that something needs done about several moves in the game (Akuma mainly), and that some characters do have a different feel to them (some for better; some for worse). The answer just needs to be realistic in both terms of balance and ease of implementation.
Honda’s a perfect example. Many people (including Sirlin) have expressed ideas regarding his headbutt (jab in particular) being less safe on block, and removing stored Ochio entirely. His defensive nature would still be totally intact, since if he were to connect there would be no disadvantage. If you play too risky though, no free throw or great chip/favorable trades (especially against the lower half of the cast). There are things like this example that stand out as simple, effective ways to improve the game that could easily be implemented in a revision. The likelihood of it ever happening could only improve the deeper the quality well-reasoned ideas get.
FYI…WWL link didn’t work for me…ah k, I’ll check back later, thanks.
It most likely won’t since Capcom isn’t even going to put the time or money into equalizing the PS3 version with the XBOX version. There’s pretty much no chance that HDR will ever get another patch.
Air Fireball discussion
Quick rising helps too. Without tech rolling, Akuma can reliably set up meaty fireball setups. With quick rise you have to predict whether or not your opponent will take that option.
I understand jizzon’s arguement though, we can’t drastically alter akuma, since he won’t match his other incarnations, so he has to keep the air hado and the blue one :arazz:.
I think aside from all of his other buff stuff, the air hado is just not something characters were designed for/around. Akuma didn’t show up until ST, and he was thrown in just for the shit of it, after the other characters had been designed.
Its not that you can’t fight him, its just there is no matchup that he loses. He wins any match ryu wins (idk if ken wins any that ryu doesn’t), and his air hado, teleport, can’t safe jump him, RD invincibility, and invulnerable/multi hitting srks make up for the other matches.
Your PS3 comment is pretty much dead-on, sadly. If there’s no money to be made at this point from any kind of patch or revision, it likely won’t happen. Long term, it’s doubtful, but more likely.
As in later console generations likely. Dare to dream.
But, as blindly foolish as it might be…
-Another idea for Blanka (along with no damage penalty on horizontal ball) would be to lower his slide hitbox so that it could go under Ryu/Akuma’s fireballs, and possibly Chun’s. He’s like this in pretty much every later version of the game; the hitbox at the front still isn’t good, but at least it might help in a few key spots.
-Ryu and Ken shouldn’t be able to cancel roundhouse sweep into anything. It’s not as much the free meter after knockdown, so much as the extreme range and push-out when blocked into fireball. The reasoning is similar to that of O.Sagat losing his standing short cancel in HDR: if you can get in, you deserve to be able to stay in a little easier. They’d still have their great forward poke cancels anyway. Akuma should lose this too, unless they tone down his invincibility on SRK so that his zone game is actually different. In a game where fireballs are so potent, the shoto sweep cancel is total overkill.
-There is no good reason Fei Long shouldn’t have his old short flame kick back. The circumstances Sirlin listed as being problematic (mostly the advantage frames from chicken wing kicks) have already been toned down. It doesn’t advance him, so spamming it becomes a hazard. It doesn’t have the invincibility or priority of true SRKs except for a few start-up frames. Fei’s a contender now, sure, so why not give him back a move he had before (that was clearly not overpowered or unbalanced), especially considering the other problem elements have already been addressed?
-As far as Akuma goes: Very few (if any!) totally invincible frames on Akuma’s SRKs. Jab red fireball knocks down; fierce blue doesn’t. SGS has hitbox at head after a moment of total invincibility on start-up. Red fireballs do very slightly more damage, but each have a few more frames of start-up (more similar to 3S) to encourage novel fireball trap (along with lack of really safe SRK anti-air) and footsies. Few more frames before air fireball comes out; nothing drastic, but a little would go a long way. Otherwise leave his rushdown/mix-up games alone; toning down his SRK already makes him more vulnerable all over the place, and being able to stuff the air fireball attempts even in the least would bring him back to Earth in a hurry.
Most of the reasoning behind these has been explained elsewhere as well, but I’d be happy to delve into more specific details if anyone’s curious.
Blanka would be nearly broken with a slide like that. Free knockdowns for Blanka? Too good. And if you lower the slide hitboxes at that point, no jab in the game will counter the slide… Slide all day until they mash lows and eat hop into bite or balls.
Ryu and Ken always had the cancelable sweep, and they never where too good. They are too good against Honda, only, then its Honda’s fault. It has no comparison with O. Sagats cancelable s. short cause the sweep is way more punishable on whiff. I’d say the shotos need sweep into hadouken, or they will be too weak in footsies to win against half the cast.
I agree on what you said about Fei… and Akuma… I just prefer Coth’s idea of no blue FB. I dont care Akuma has it in other games, he has demon flips, dive kick in other games too and he dont have it here. The Akuma flavor is the air fireball and the ridiculous combos he has.
I won’t delve into blanka, but oh come on, who has trouble with shoto sweep > hado. Honda yeah he’s the only one. Sounds like he should work that cr.jab > bearhug range then.
On fei, I completely agree, one of sirlin’s rationalizations was that CW > FK would always be the “best” option. How would that be the best option if fei has to squat down, take a shit, and then throw himself towards you (CW is far too telegraphed and loses to too much now). I also don’t agree with mk/hk CW having the recovery of lk CW and not having the invulnerability to fireballs. They have a few ranges sure, but they are the least useful. Also, honda got a psuedo trip guard, but what fei and cammy? don’t get one? :lame:
Akuma just needs something done, My justification for the blue hado being removed is that he gets his red hado redone a little better.
I’m thinking 15 39/40/41 That would make it just a little worse than ken’s and force akuma to only commit to comboable hados (which may still give a frame or two to the opponent to reverse) or he could only commit to full screen fireball wars. This might make him forego the ground/zone game, and commit to a rushdown plan. This balances out due to his health being low.
One change I’d like to see see is removing that ridiculous fake fireball. Dumb ass move. It’s by far the most infuriating move in the game imo.
Also when you’re gonna claim you’ve changed some things, make it so that it’s actually true.
I sort of agree, but I’d rather see fei buffed, hawk buffed(let me rephrase, old dive + new dive, and bug fixes), and stored ochio gone.
Completely agree. Shoto sweeps are so fucking good already. They don’t need that extra advantage when they already kill most of the non-fireball cast.
:wgrin: j/k
Yep Akumas SRK has too much invincibility, I got beat out of boxer’s super at the apex of his shoryuken wtf. I think it has enough invincibility to use as a meaty attack much like using Ken’s completely invincible :mp: shoryuken as a meaty. Although i would accept Akuma as is except for one tiny little thing, get rid of Akuma’s super hes already extremely good without one.
AAAHHHH! IT’S THE APOCALYPSE! AAAHHH! AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! 
To rebut:
Blanka’s slide could still be stuffed by any number of normals. I’m not saying to shave his blue hitbox to nothing; just enough to clear some of the bigger fireballs. If you are trying to stop it with limbs, it’s not likely going to be with something terribly slow, so you should be able to anticipate hop/bite pretty well (similar in a way to Cammy’s poke/Hooligan games). The slide still both starts and recovers higher, so it’s not a free knockdown, and it forces you to still time and guess correctly against Ryu’s large, fast fireball (not an easy task). Dhalsim would still be the champ when it comes to slides, but Blanka would have a more viable option against a few characters. Nothing faster or longer-ranged; just a move that works a bit more uniformly against more of the cast. It’s not automatic in the least, and would give Blanka a little more of an edge in a few mind games, which is a good thing.
Regarding cancelable shoto sweep…studtrooper nailed it. Anyone who wants to get in at all goes back to square one immediately unless the shoto player is asleep. Pretty much low tier and non-fireball nightmare at high levels. It’s not totally unmanageable, but the power level sweep has is already so good without anything else. Sweep into fireball is very much a 2+2=5 situation; losing the recovery frames into a move that does chip damage, builds meter, and pushes the opponent completely out is a bit extreme. Seriously, play some truly high-level Ryus as Cammy, Honda, or Blanka and try to stay in at all. Forward poke is enough, and it’s still plenty powerful. (I can’t remember the last time I was in a decent match and had a shoto openly whiff a sweep against me, so for the Sagat comparison that’s not a really strong counter.) It’s really the only change that stands out for Ken and Ryu at all. (Sorry, I love Ryu’s fake!)
Akuma’s way overpowered even without his Super. The problem is that his offense is too seamless between the totally invincible SRKs and near instantaneous air fireball release. Toning down these two moves just slightly would make all the difference in the world in balancing Akuma. Without totally invincible SRK he would trade more often, and he would have to resort to either keeping up tight offense strings or playing more unique zoning games. A few more frames of start-up on air fireball would give characters like Gief a better chance of being able to do something on reaction instead of just getting hosed and kept out all day. The combo ability and sheer power of his SRKs would still remain, as would his air fireball set-ups. They just wouldn’t be…mindless. And again, taking away an entire move would be a surefire way for Capcom to receive a barrage of hate mail about it. Might as well tweak the properties of the red to compliment a flavor all his own though, totally agreed.
If T.Hawk had both of his dives, his knockdown dive should be totally unsafe on block. The arc of his landing could be more shallow so that he’d actually have a more advantage if it were to hit, but he would get lit up by the entire cast for being predictable at all. With his whiff, this wouldn’t be anything terribly amazing; it would actually be very similar to connecting with jab DP on the ground, which is also not broken at all. His new dive would be for relatively safe chipping, and his old one would be to press the advantage if you know you can connect.
This is the one of the biggest reasons I disliked Alpha 3 and SFIII: no cancellable sweeps. Ryu and Ken don’t kill non fireball characters with this. Even Honda can escape it with reversal Sumo Splash.
Example:
Ryu throws Hadoken,
Honda does neutral j Fierce over the Hadoken while charging down (and the neutral j Fierce has the best chance of blocking a sweep IMO),
Ryu advances and sweeps into Hadoken,
Honda CAN do reversal Sumo Splash after the sweep to safely escape the Hadoken,
and at that range, Ryu is still recovering from the Hadoken so the Splash is safe.
Pretty much the only time Honda can’t do Sumo Splash is, obviously when he’s knocked down, OR when he was advancing and didn’t have time to charge down and/or did a Torpedo and lost his down charge, etc etc.
And even at certain ranges, sweep into Hadoken is dangerous for Ryu and Ken when Honda has Super meter, as he can reversal Super after the sweep and catch the Hadoken attempt.
Every other non fireball character has an escape out of it, specifically by reversalling after the sweep, and generally other options as well:
eg Fei: reversal Short Flying Kick or Super
Cammy: reversal Knuckle or Super
etc
etc
It’s only charge non fb characters like Bison that have a hard time if they don’t have their down charge. But yeah, there are definitely solutions, and cancellable sweep is not game breaking by any stretch of the imagination.
take away grab whiffs.
fuck not having stored ochio.
You don’t need stored ochio, and if you wanna take away shoto cancelable sweep from shotos, then you should probably do something to honda’s ability to always be safe on an AA torpedo, that also does ridiculous damage and can go through fireballs after startup.
Honda vs anyone without a fireball is just as retarded as a shoto vs honda.
Also, why can’t we look at balance in terms of honda? He reasonably loses or wins against a lot of the cast, and goes even with some.
Why does he have to be able to get in on everyone? Why can’t we aim for each character to be like honda?
Well no one wants a fat hitbox, and slow jump! You know what I mean. :wgrin:
Blanka can’t. Only with super and really, his super sucks.
I don’t mind cancellable sweeps that much though.