Yeah, but even if the super misses some of the hits, Ryu is completely safe afterwards. If Rog gets hit out of super, he gets put on his ass, changing the dynamic of the fight completely.
No, he gets thrown or reversal dp’d if its point blank
I was aware of the point blank miss, but shotos typically don’t throw point blank. I thought jiggly was talking about when like the first one or two hits hit an outstretched arm and then allows time for blocking the next few hits.
Zangief and Hawk got new bugs introduced because of the new Super motions. So even if you input the proper Super commands you would get a normal attack or a DP. In the most recent patch Zangief’s bug was fixed…Hawk’s was not. :tdown: So Hawk has a Super bug that’s brand new to him in HDR.
Another patch to (at the very least) fix some of the remaining bugs in the game would be wonderful. From a marketing standpoint, a clean, seamless experience would be far more likely to fetch more dollars from potential customers than more controversial gameplay tweaks. On the bug front though, Hawk and Akuma should be addressed. Hawk could use higher priority on a few of his moves, sure, but even just removing his reversal and super input bugs would be a boon to him. Players would benefit greatly from the ability to not play against scrub Akumas every other match in Scoreboard mode too. If that isn’t “rebalancing” I don’t know what is. Or hey, tweak him correctly this time! Oh, dare to dream.
If not, simply correct the online versus modes from “Scoreboard” and “Friendly” to “Akumafest” and “Normal” respectively for clarity’s sake.
Regarding gameplay tweaks, though, even if only for fun…I really do think Fei is better, but still lower tier. He is very good at catching people off-guard, and his newfound rekka range and juggling antics are nice. He has decent normals (which link just fine the way they are, imho). His super is great! What gets me about him is that his non-rekka specials leave him more open than before.
Having larger recovery openings after CWs or short FK just…sucks! CWs in particular perplex me. It’s great if you don’t go too deep with it or catch them in the air for that sweet juggle, but damn can you get punished all through that move. It has lower priority, pretty slow start-up, AND gets you totally thrashed if it connects too deep? But hey, it’s easier to pull off…and the short-range one can go through fireballs…psh.
FKs at all strengths don’t have the priority of real SRKs; they trade with a LOT of moves. Why then was it necessary to add recovery to both the weakest FK AND ALL of the CWs? At least one should be buffed back up a bit, at least to further help with chip damage against turtles like Honda (and good Vegas). No combo insanity, no “guaranteed damage” autopilot nonsense.
The old link from CW to close fierce into rekkas had a one frame window, yet five frames were added to their recovery. How about meeting in the middle and giving Fei only an extra frame or two of recovery instead of five? That way, he could still keep most of that great pressure he had before (though without an easy-input version of the megacombo he had in ST), but still leave his opponents plenty of options if they’re paying attention. The escape/reversal window would still be double or triple what it was originally, and since FKs of all strengths aren’t totally invincible by design, even restoring the old short FK wouldn’t make Fei overpowered in the least. Does anyone else agree; doesn’t this make at least a little sense?
It makes total sense. I can understand the worse prority on first hit to balance out with the easier motion, but the 5 frames were brutal. He says to prevent Fei from trapping people with it. I think that’s a weak argument. So now CW has slow startup and slow recovery.
Awesome.
Same thing with flame kick. As you stated just like I did a few pages back that flame kick is not as good as other DP motions so there was no need to nerf it.
If I had to choose one change, it would be to give him back his safe Flame Kick. He needs that to keep pressure. Like many people are saying, Fei isn’t as scary anymore.
I still think unlike other characters, Fei had no one to represent him during testing. I think people that were play testing him weren’t Fei players at all. So they were play testing him and were just finding annoyances, and add that to Sirlin plucking his balls off.
True true, but those were un-intentional, whereas Rog’s super bug was never even considered to be fixed as far as I know.
This is like a not important thing though.
He is arguably the best character in the game, with one of the best or the best supers in the game
Other things take priority.
It had to have some importance for someone like afro to say something about it.
Pretty much every single top Rog player used this method, and it made a difference too. And btw, Im pretty sure it was a bug that Rog couldn’t negative edge out of a TAP.
He is talking about rog’s super in my post.
I dunno about tap, if it is a problem, lame
Sorry if this has been covered already.
I would LOVE to have the random backwards attacks fixed.
Sometimes when I cross-up with Bison and then do his close standing short, Bison will turn away from the opponent to perform the move.
I don’t know what is causing this, but I don’t remember it happening in ST.
Also, I believe it can happen with other characters too.
The reason this sucks is because the turned away attack will frequently not connect, breaking the combo, and allowing the opponent to punish/block.
That just means your timing is too good, Terry! 
The backwards attacks actually do happen in ST. The best place to see them? The TZW Volume 7 Combo Video! Also in FAQ form on GameFAQs.com.
I’ll agree with you that they tend to occur more in HDR, though. All of the combo videos I’ve seen for HDR tend to feature at least one combo involving backwards attacks.
Well, sure, Rog probably isn’t your main :nono:
As for right now I’d say Rog is not the best in the game. The non safe jab headbutt alone hurts his game plenty.
My own thoughts to add to the pile, crucify me at will:
Ryu-none
Ken- add one more frame recovery on jab dragon
Honda- Remove oichou altogether.*
Guile-none
Chun-none
Blanka-beast roll knocks down
Zangief- none
Dhalsim- none
Fei- revert flying kick (WTF is it called a chicken wing?)
Cammy- give back j. strong, would be awesome to somehow give her the dive kick
Dee Jay-none
Hawk- remove glitches
Rog- none
Vega- none
Sagat- none
Bison- none
Akuma- remove ground fireballs altogether.**
*Honda having a command throw always seemed out of place to me. He is a zoning character, not a throwing character. His whole game pre-ST is to keep you out of his zone with counter hits and pressure you with HHS. To give him a close range counter breaks game design and symmetry. I think without it he would be at the perfect power level and his place within the game as a character with lopsided matches would be appropriate. If you can’t handle that as a player then you shouldn’t pick him.
**I like the idea of Akuma being a pure power character, and I wouldn’t want to neuter him by taking away the invincible DP or air fireball traps. Instead, I think he would be at a fair place with the rest of the cast if you just took away all his ground fireballs completely. He would still have the tools to deal with every situation, and deal a ton of damage in combos, bu this zoning would be crippled. He’d be a super-aggro shoto, which is what he is supposed to be.
Honda’s had his ochio every game he’s appeared in since ST though. It’s a pretty big part of his ST gameplan too. Just feel thankful that he can’t loop you in a corner anymore 
Akuma - nerf air fireball, allow more counters to it
Cammy - make spin kunckle MUCH faster
Ken - bit more recovery on jab SRK
Guile - tad bit more recovery on booms
Honda - maybe removed ability to store Ochio???
[quote=“megaultrasuper, post:334, topic:65987”]
My own thoughts to add to the pile, crucify me at will:
Ken- add one more frame recovery on jab dragon
Unnecessary nerf, so you want similar to ryu recovery on his jab dragon and his hado is still limited when compared to ryu. Ken’s fine if not perfect now, jab dragon spam only works online, don’t forget he has 3 landing frames + the time he falls down.
Python in the guile thread showed its possible to airthrow ryu’s jab dragon, you have more time than you are using.
Why so much ken hate?
I fucking HATE this, i get it with bison occasionally too, and it usually completely fucks the match up, cause it’s a free hit/block for the opponent if it doesn’t connect.I don’t remember it happening nearly as much in other versions of SF but seems to happen in ST/HDR much more.It feels like it’s something to do with the “kick him” command being recieved a fraction of a second before the “turn around” command.I get it if i mistime a kick on a crossover combo, especially if i link a low forward onto the crossup, and it frustrates the hell out of me every time.:mad:
Honda shouldn’t lose ochio altogether, but he should get a whiff animation and/or maybe even not be able to store it. He should at least not be able to to negative edge piano a stored ochio for three seperate reversal throw attempts for free. Always struck me as a stupid thing to leave in the game.
Cammy’s Spinning Back Fist needs to be redesigned. It makes no sense to have 3 seperate distances for it to go, because of the way it works only the short version is fast enough to actually punish fire balls, the medium and hard versions take too long and thus are effectively worthless, but if you speed up the medium and hard versions such that they could punish from their distances, why would you ever use anything but the hard version, if it can punish from that far away, it can punish from any distance closer then that as well. Thus distance based “strengths” makes no sense and is why the move rarely sees use and usually only as the light version.
One possible redesign would be as such, have all 3 versions move the same distance, maybe some where between the distance medium and light currently do, but have it close in at the same speed (if not a tiny bit faster) as light SBF currently does, basically the goal is that with the right spacing your opponent can’t randomly throw out fire balls with out getting punished but only at that distance or closer, any farther out and there still free to fire ball you to their hearts delight (which they already can so this is no change for good or bad). The key redesign however is this, leave the invulnerability frames and hit boxes the same on the light version, BUT change them for the medium and hard version. The medium version could be vulnerable in the feet but now invulnerable in the head allowing it to sneak past air fire balls, high tigers, maybe even sumo head butts, and blanka balls, but be extremely vulnerable to sweeps or lower hitting attacks. The hard version could have no invulnerability at all, but be faster and count as an overhead giving her a MUCH needed standing overhead against turtles. The hard version should probably take just a smidge more time from activation to the first hit landing as Ryu’s standing overhead but have very high priority, so they have a chance to smack you out of it during her spin, but if they miss that chance they can’t just head butt or flash kick you out of it at the last second.
In that way all 3 versions have their uses, and theres alot more mind games involved for turtles, should I attack because she’s done the hard version and is completely vulnerable now, or is that the light/medium version and I should just block and punish as usual? If it is the light or medium version if I attack in the right area I’ll hit her anyway, should I sweep or attack high?
I don’t know, just an initial idea, but the goal is to make SBF more useful, particularly in all 3 versions.