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I think you misinterpreted my statement. And/or my grammar sucks donkey balls :razz:
As this is kind of a “wish list” thread, if anyone is interested in discussing arcade ST vs. Remix, see this thread.
Damn. This thread got totally hijacked. I was enjoying all that theory fighter…
right, stupid noob question:
Akuma is a retarded character at the moment. However, he could be kinda fun if he had his game focussed more towards “build meter…do SGS”. or your dead.
What would be wrong with totally, brutally nerfing his standard fireball. Making it a really crap move with a HUGE lag after it where you can get tagged.
This forces him to use air fireballs to get out of traps, and jumping always = vulnerability.
Secondly, remove some of his retarded hitboxes and crossups.
The result = a character who is a bit like Bison - lots of runaway followed by one chance at a TOD, only Akumas is the SGS.
Wheras bisons weakness is he doesnt have a reversal, Akumas is he takes mega damage.
Change “easy” motions back to original motions, why change stuff when people have been playing it a certain way for like 15+ years.
Chun back her vanilla ST stuff, tone down super damage just a bit
Hawk old dive and no whiff throw. HDR Dive is fucking shitty as hell
Fei old Chicken Wing, give O.Fei’s cr.strong/cr.foward
Guile take out super shortcut
I don’t know much about framewise and hitboxes, I’m not at that level with ST.
Mizuki - You and I are the only two people who actually think new dive sucks bad.
Its really good and bad depending on the match, though I do think he should have had both.
fei can combo after c.mk into a s.fp xx rekkas, combo off c.lk into s.fp, c.lk link c.lp xx super, link off of c.fp, s.mp and s.mk link into any normal, f+mk into any normal that reaches. His high low game though isn’t really too great, it’s more about whiff punishing and mixing up throws or punishing counters to throws with rekkas etc. Only real mix up high/low wise is instant j.mk or c.lk/c.mk into s.fp xx rekkas. Which I would just risk getting hit with the overhead cause fei is back away from you. So yeah, as a o.fei player I agree with you 100%, but he has alot more combo options than what you listed lol.
What match is the dive “really good” for compared to the old one?
No way, man. Cammy’s new spinning backfist and hooligan motions are a million times better than that crap they saddled her with in classic ST.
They were difficult to perform consistently AND they overlapped. Utter ass.
Whataminit OP - lemme get this straight ( I didn’t read the whole thread)…
You wanna take a mid-tier character (Honda) and nerf the crap out of him and only toss him a few bones in his super to make up for it?
It’s not like Honda is OP. The shoto’s who you wouldn’t change already beat him so they would do even better vs him.
No invulnerability on the start of the headbutt? What do you expect him to do if someone jumps in after he clears a fireball? Or what about if Blanka, Cammy, Chun ir Fei is just jumping in his face?
Well he could block and oicho, but you wanna nerf that too - no storage and a whiff?
This isn’t IV where characters need to whore meter to be effective. The way you have it, Honda lives and dies by his super - that would make him very boring.
He’s mostly fine now - if he needs any further changes they should be buffs.
There’s quite a few others who think it’s bad, they’re probably just not as vocal about it.
Seriously? He rapes half the cast.
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What exactly do you mean, FreshOJ, by ‘uninterruptible’ attacks? Like if you string c.short together multiple times it can’t be interrupted? I don’t think his c.short chains into itself? And how does that work for s.mp? I’m confused.
Dhalsim.
If the knock down Dive was in the game, I could only see it being effective against the Shoto’s, Gief, DeeJay, and Sagat and Cammy. That’s 6 out of 16 match-ups. Hawk vs Guile would be worse than VST Hawk vs Sim. Guile can sit there all day and if you ever do dive, block and RH FK plus YOU get knocked down. Yeah, there’s a chance you could get that dive in here and there, but so could you in ST, and look who still won most of the time.
To be fair, that half of the cast gets raped by others too. Fact of the matter is, even with Honda’s new buffs, he still dies a horrible fiery death in top tier play.
Honda is pretty damn good now though thanks to the super and easier hands. If I had to change anything else it would be:
Give the speed of the headbutt and Sumo Splash Honda had in Hyper Fighting. Let HK Sumo Splash hit on the way up like it does in HF.
O.Honda normals.
Better headbutt hitbox like in HF (the ST one is way too susceptible to wiff crossup counters).
Take away shoto ability to cancel crouching HK! Wishful thinking :sad:
While I’m at it… Rog changes would be:
Give back safe jab headbutt. That change alone loses the match against Guile and Bison IMO.
Let turn punch level 1&2 go through fireballs like in HF.
Less initial non-hitting frames on headbutt (not a crazy amount, but he is a little too easy to safe jump against).
Make his dashing straight punch hit mid instead of high like O.Rog. To make the move useful anyway.
Do you mean against top tier characters or just against top tier players ?
Sure Honda will have a enormously hard time once he goes up against any Shoto.
But so will any Fei, Cammy, Thawk, Gief, Dictator, Claw etc once they fight Honda.
I mean sure looking at Honda vs Shoto matches is just sad but so is the fact of how many players that Honda player has utterly demolished to get to that match.
Buffing Honda with better normals or better headbutt would make those matchups even harder to the point of unplayable.
If i were to make one change i would give jab headbutt tripguard on the last frames so he could actually be rewarded for guessing right on a projectile. But at the same time would still want him nerfed with loss of stored ochio and some more changes to make him less dominant against non projectile characters.
Oh and Honda players need to try harder. :pleased:
Against the fireball characters. He arguably can go even against Chun and Sim but I think they have the slight advantage.
We doooo! Even in the face of “you fuckin honda newb get a real character!” messages. In any case, EAmegaman’s recent win against Justin Fucking Wong gave me and probably other Honda players new hope into staying with maining Honda.
It’s kind of funny how Honda players want everyone to believe that any character with a fireball gets a free win against him and if they ever beat a projectile char they deserve a tremendous pat on the back. When in reality Honda is no worse against fireball characters than a whole host of other guys.
The other night Kuroppi and I were losing to x OH MY GOD x’s Sagat. I was playing Hawk, and he was playing Hawk, Gief and Honda. Out of those three characters want to hazard a guess which one finally started winning?
Honda has a much easier time against Guile and DJ than Hawk does. Probably easier against Sagat, probably easier against 'Sim. So how exactly is it that Honda gets “raped” by fireball characters and Hawk doesn’t?
It doesn’t seem like Honda players will be happy until they have a one-button strategy for beating every character in the game.
Not fireball characters in general but the Shotos.
My Honda is still somewhat rusty because I pretty much stopped playing Honda for an extended period after HDR came out but I’ve recently started putting a lot more time into him. Still, he is my best character because he has been my main character since Hyper Fighting so I’ll win more with him compared to my other characters even in matches that I’m “supposed” to lose. (BTW, don’t take playing against OH MY GOD so seriously because as other players have confirmed, he is using forms of assistance when he plays, whether it be turbo, macros or both.)
Anyway Hawk is a terrible match against Sagat but even so, we both had a number of very close matches and that match up now is nothing like the hell he had in ST. Sagat vs Hawk or Gief in ST was a joke. Hawk can actually make Sagat work for the win now and I think Zangief does fairly well against Sagat now.
However, I disagree about Honda having a MUCH easier time against Guile and Dee Jay compared to Hawk. IMO, Honda’s most difficult match is Dee Jay. And after playing against a couple of Japanese Guile players, I think that match is actually harder now than it was in ST. IMO, Hawk is better against projectile characters now because of his new dive but people keep calling me crazy for saying that his new dive is better now. :rolleyes:
Have you actually played Honda against some elite players? Do you have any clue as to how hard some of his matchups are? This isn’t about sympathy or needing a pat on the back. I play the characters I enjoy using. But to stand there and tell me that you know how difficult his matches are when you don’t play him is pretty silly.
But having said all that, I don’t really understand the whole point of your rant. I play Honda, Hawk and Zangief and while some matches may be slightly easier than others, in general they all lose to the same characters because they are all non-projectile and they have to work their way past the turtling to start throwing and doing their damage so the same basic turtle strategy is effective against all three of them.