Random s\d thread

the j.lk on sent can be blocked due to his super armor. Most s\d players will do jup+rh and just go for that.

The way I learned it was to break down into steps. Step 1 being the j+lk part. Just practice that on storm till you get it down. Then step 2 is tapping lp after the j+lk hits. Remember 2 fingers for the j+lk, tap lp part. Step 3 is qcf+lk and step4 is mashing punch on the way down.

I practice like step 1 and 2 for 2-3 days about an hour straight whenever I went to training mode. Just keep doing it repeatidly till its muscle memory. Then you can add to that muslce memory with the other things.

take my advice. Practice on storm all the time. Even if you can barely do it on her, doing it on cable\doom\cyke\capcom is hella easy. practice in the corner first so you can see how it looks but remember that midscreen is going to be much different. You almost always have to dash, jupfwd+lk midscreen all day.

yea AA’s are much easier to punish in the aspect that they come @ you. Those assists that hang back are a little trickier. If they want to spam from full screen, drones+long bomb+activate is a full screen counter and it will work on storm\sent assists. Thats a quick 30% of life right there. Then you get teleport onto them w\ orbs and fuck them up a little more. In most cases that counter will tally up to around 100%max depending on what magnus does.

MSS has no AA so it means you get easy pressure. You can throw kind spam doom out there when you teleport onto them and they won’t have much of choice other than to block him or sj out. When the SJ out, you have the advantage because striders d.fp can’t be beaten if time it right normal vs normal.

sent\doom has no real AA but they have make shift ones. If mangus\storm is going to come in @ you, call doom and if doom hits, sj with sent, lk, lp, rp. Bam thats your BnB. All though a good mag\storm will be able to kick doom in the head, its an easily abuseable tactic to use. Especially if your opponents don’t understand how to stop doom. Your other AA is sents qcf+ tap RH. AKA stink bombs. You wan’t the short ones not the long ones. If you call doom and do stink bombs, its alomst impossible for storm\magnus to come in from the front angle immediately. They have to come in on the back side or late on the front so that means you get to dash back away from them for free.

magneto isn’t one of the best in the game for nothing. Just respect what he can do and see how your opponent is coming in @ you. Someone may seem really good because they can infinite and 1 hit kill you but if they only have 2-3 ways of getting in, use that to your advantage.

the only time I think you should start strider is against cable and thats it. The rest of the time you should always start sent.

you just have to step up your sentinel. He’s a very important part of s\d so don’t slack wth him. Practice the robot. Not only can he deal fast damange with fast fly combos, he doesn’t need bar to be effective and builds bar quite fast.

when storm escapes out of orbs, chase after her if she ran away early in the orbs. SJ, then dj after her and throw rings. If she goes off screen, go for qcf+lp and throw orbs all the way up but try not to get faked out. Strider can go just as high as her off the screen. If she fakes going off the screen and goes back down, you’ll get fucked up. Your vulnerable after the qcf+lp and if you don’t have orbs to protect you, hes done. They could always just block wait for you to come up @ them then really run away but you can do much about that. You just have to deal w\ it.

OR build bar on the ground but charge for a bomb. Most storm players will run away and wait for your meter to be over. When they see that you don’t have any meter left, more than likely they will try to attack from the air. So all you do is throw a lk bomb early and watch them land on it. You want to throw it so its already out as there coming down @ you. Once its out, you can xup with the bomb and just watch them get blown the fuck up. The bomb + a trap pattern is 40-50% chip. Once they fear the bomb, you can always just jump over + doom for easy sandwhich and pin. This same strat works on magnus. Magnus like to be in close every second he can and he’ll trade w\ assists here and there. 2 bombs is half life on magnus I believe or @ least 40% and he’ll think twice about coming back @ you when the bomb is there.

The best way to keep her from running away is not to fuck up your trap patterns and keep her pinned. When you hit her during orbs, make sure you make it count. I’ll usually dump my bar just to get rid of storm and fight it out. She’s not easy by any means but those are just some of the things that seem to work for me.

also don’t make your activations obvious unless its guranteed trap. Most of the time they’ll run away and a smart storm player will not get hit trying to get away. Play the normal game w\ her and force her above you w\o activating so you can take advantage of your c.fp. Striders game w\o orbs is just as important as the trap.

its hard to play s\d properly when you don’t have everything mastered. Even when you know the team like the back of your hand, you have to try to outsmart just about every opponent you’ll run into. The only reason why I play is because when it wins it just looks so damn beastly or the look on peoples faces when they say they can’t get out.

take your loses and think why your losing. If magnus hits you, think about why you got hit. If storm gets away, think about why she got away. Striders trap cannot be guard cancelled if you do it right. Only alpha counters stop him and cyclops alpha counter is the only one strider can’t stop.

thanks for all the help and strats shoult- I really appreciate it. I’m gonna put more effort into my sentinel and doom, cuz oftentimes the deciding moments in matches are determined by how good those two are. I don’t know how many times I could have won but my doom or sentinel didn’t pull through for me.

no prob. s\d vs an experinced player who knows s\d = no more wins :sad:. I used to think when I first got serious w\ it that if I had a good sent, great strider and a solid doom that I could beat anyone which isn’t the case. No matter how good you get w\ it, the teams natural handicap is tough to deal w\ @ times. Especially against players who know what to do against it. However, it is a nice random team that will throw alot of people off balance if they don’t know what to do.

doom is an under rated character and not alot of people respect him. I went out of town last week to play some people and I had a 100% doom with a 20% strider against m\s\cyke and I came back from the depths of hell. The air photon super is 0 a frame block kind of move if your close enough. If they’re not blocking when you do the super, they well get hit and it does so much life. Ontop of that, its dhc friendly. Air photon super combo’s into hsf, striders orbs and grab super. You should learn the doom infinite if your thinking about being beastly w\ s\d. Any landed orb hit in the corner = tag into dr. doom and infinite or tag into sent and corner unblockable.

everyone on ssd has to be good\great. Sometimes sent gets nuked and s\d has to come through. Other times sent will do everything right and strider gets nuked so sent\doom has to tough it out and don’t forget when it goes down to the wire where doom has to go 1v1 on someone. Everyone is good enough to do something so just don’t let them be used for just assists.

Ive read this whole topic and have some qusetions. My sent ,storm,cable,cyke and Bh are all crappy/inconsistent and Ive found that my best s/d team have cap.com or tron. It also seems that the people i play “fear” my lower tier team more to the point where mags have backed away from me before the match.Is it better to have a top tier 3 char that you dont understand or a lower tier that you are more comfortable with.
and is it just me or does strider have too many moves for his own good. Ive seen so many ouros turned into rags and punch teles into wall hangs. (even clock) and what moves should i stay away from. right now im using just about every move:wasted:

The best strider teams hands down is ssd. I’m sure everyone will agree on that. If your goal is to win, you have to pick a better strider team. If you want to just fuck around, pick who you like.

ssd which is THE best strider team has a hard enough time winning. Playing anything other than that is asking for a harder fight than it is already.

s\d\capcom is super old school. I’ve beaten some good people w\ it but its really easy to lose. I look @ it as a super powered strider squad. If you have a beastly strider, it works but don’t expect to win much. Its an ok team @ best.

when you fuck up an activation with strider and he does that running slash, you can still cancel out while he’s running. Teleport into wall climb sucks and it happens to the best of the s\d players. You just have to deal w\ it and try not to let it happen. You can try to manuver down by flying to other side twice and when the game forces strider off the wall, call your assist or fly to other side then kick down. Both of which are risky but strider is dead if he stands still so you might as well try something.

Marvel has a really weird buffer system that benefits strider somewhat. If you do qcb, qcb twice and tap punch, you’ll never wall climb on accident. qcb is quarter circle back aka backwards fireball.

the only move you should stay away from is striders fp and rh dragon punch slashes. Those are crap because they can’t be cancelled into orbs I think?? someone else can confirm that. ummm, other than that, strider doesn’t have a bad move unless you use them wrong.

The reason why S/D players find themselves losing matches after having big leads is because they run dry on meter. I think most of these players start to panic and don’t know what to do in the likely event.

I think that without bar strider is relying on priority, if i make him guess wrong… gg homie

once your opponent has begun to figure you out a little, theres 2 common things that every player seems to adapt to first from what I’ve experienced. What you do after a teleport and how you setup your patterns. This basically means that your opponent has adjusted to some of the trap and now you have to re-adjust to keep them frustrated from being chipped to death:lovin:.
**
after teleports,** alot of people including my self will more than likely go for a trap pattern here. Its safe, pratically guranteed and it can lead to big life. You’d be stupid not to take advantage of that scenario w\ strider but theres other ways you can take advantage of that.

Most cases, any smart player will predict that your going to teleport onto them and set you up for death somehow. That can be done a # a ways and a million ways to fall for bait. I’ve been fucking around w\ some shit that gives me better scenarios involving assists. Cyke\cable\psy all can trade\beat doom as a helper. That kinda sucks since you want to pin immediately and those AA’s are quite common. However in that case where strider would have the clear advantage if doom came in, the opponent has to call their assists @ the risk of eating a trap pattern 50\50. If they don’t, its a free chip pattern leading into multiple reps.

since strider has the advantage in this scenario and you know your opponent is trying to counter you with an AA, which is usually the case, you shouldn’t immediately jump into your first immediate option. Let your opponent try something first and THEN COUNTER THAT. say its storm\cyke and storm throws out cyke with the anticpation of countering doom. Now, cyke is out there all by himself and she’s inclined to protect him somehow. Usually thats just a hail. Even though you didn’t get some beefy life on the assist or a trap rep on storm, you’ve just implented a mind game on her and now she was force to dump a bar to protect clops rather than to bait you out one of your assists and hailing them. Then when the next kind of scenario comes into play, you can take into account what you did last time and see what storm will do this time around. Eventually your going to catch them in a bad spot and deal some big life. Mind game strider is kind of hard to pull off but if you can manage to get it in their head, you can easily swing disadvantages that you may have into really huge advantages.

teleporting to the same side will really throw off anticaption counters and actually give strider a nice mind game. It helps if you have drones for this but doom can work just as good with a little extra thought.

teleport, double jump to wall, then rejump after wall jump + assist is great. Works from both high teleports and gives you different kinds of positioning to call your assists. I find that having doom mid screen gives opponents hell @ times. Especially against magnus and vs sent\capcom.

strider during non orbs

not exactly what strider is known for but it can’t be overlooked. Trap reps get blocked, you don’t have enough bar @ times to really get it started, dooms hurt and alpha counter, super COULD kill him. Theres alot of bad scenarios that strider can run into when he has his meter going and it could either kill strider or kill doom off. Neither of which is what you want. Besides, theres going to be parts in 99% of the fights you’ll ever play where you’ll eventually have to play w\o bar. The last 1% is where you just beast the fuck out of someone and trap them 9 times.

strider actually has EXCELLENT priority. I beat storm\magnus\sent all the time when it comes down to priority. You just have to put strider into the situation where he can use it to his advantage.

c.lp great priority - 2 frames
c.lk not as good as c.lp but STILL GREAT. - 3 frames
both j.lp and j.lk have great priority @ 2 different angles.
j.lk=3 frames j.lp= 2 frames

i dont use s.lp\s.lk unless its for a trap sequence. When i’m going for priority, I always go low so I have no clue how much priority those standing lights have.

j.lp\j.lk are also great moves but just different angles to use them @. j.lp when they are above you and j.lk when they’re below you.

------sword priority cannot be fucked with unless a move has more range.
d.fp = 9 frames
df.fp = 8 frames - quite common in the game.
s.fp = 7 frames
s.rh = 9 frames
j.fp = 7 frames
j.rh = 8 frames
c.rh = 7 frames

any point where its just striders sword is INVINCIBLE. You just can’t fuck with it. c.fp is beyond beastly when you time it right. Magnus\storm have no option what so ever other than to block or evade. If they block it, animal activate. If you don’t have meter, cancel that block c.fp into a teleport.

alot of the times you’ll think that you’ve timed your c.fp perfect and you get hit anyway. When strider swings his sword, the very tip of his hands has a hit box so you can touch him there.

s.fp is really good too for semi footsie game. Marvel isn’t really all about footsie but there are times where it can be used.

dont know how good s.rh is because I don’t use it. S.fp just seems to win everything for me.

striders jump fierces are where its @ though. Strider j.fp has this really high hit box angle that stops magnus\storm from square jumping over him. It goes from a little behind his head to a little ways underneath him. Maybe like 190 degrees of hit box angle.

j.rh hits like a low swooping angle that stops ANY attack from coming @ him. J.rh when storm is below you just shuts her down when you do it right. J.rh has more range downward than j.fp but j.rh doesn’t give you the angle above his head. Its really effective when you can imply that low angle from the air though.

Double Throw Combo??

This entry is purely theoretical. I’m not claiming to have advanced a brand new game breaking Strider combo, just looking for input on to why this combo will or will not work and verification from a more experienced player regarding if it is actually possible. If i’m missing out on or overlooking any fundamental concept of Mvc2 regarding throws or anything else, please point that out and disregard my post, but don’t flame.

The other day I was fighting some dude using cable and I caught him in orbs. So I hit him a few times, call Sentinel Drones, they hit, I run forward and launch. However my muscle memory instead pulled out the clockw0rk combo, even though its usual command could not be executed because Sent assist hadn’t left the screen. Notwithstanding I teleport and mash Doom, kind of panicking, hoping that the game will register that Sent assist is gone, and press forward+ fierce for the throw.

What happened is that Doom came out right before Strider slammed the opponent into the ground. RIGHT before. And I know, big deal, right? You see this all the time. But what happened is that Cable went flying into Doom while the rocks were still around his body and flew off to the left, leaving Doom and Strider together on the right. Thinking that Cable was going to shoot Doom on recovery, I teleport over to Cable as the rocks are hitting him, and come right in the range for a throw ( at least visually) but hit him with fierce punch instead.

So then it dawned on me that maybe, if Doom’s random rocks were positioned correctly and if I timed and positioned my teleport correctly I could throw Cable again.

So I messed around with the clockw0rk combo in training mode and found out these things, which you most likely already know ( note: all of these assume strider is facing to the right):

  1. the normal execution of the clockw0rk throw combo, that is calling Doom at the SAME time that you launch will put the opponent between Strider and Doom. When Doom’s rocks hit, they are spread out and have left his body.

  2. If you time calling Doom AFTER you launch and a little bit after you teleport, but before you input the commands for the throw,Strider will throw the opponent into Doom’s rocks while they are still around Doom’s body, and the randomness of Doom’s rocks being as it is, the rocks may or may not continue to hit the opponent continuously. They either get hit by the some rocks, then are able to block, or are hit by most of the rocks as they leave Doom’s body for up to 14 hits. Either way the opponent will take the brunt of the rocks flying around Doom and fly to the left, leaving you and Doom together on the right.

What happens next is what I’m hoping a Strider player with much better execution, experience, and creativity than myself can figure out. Is there a way, after executing the combo the second way, to teleport to the same side as the opponent as they are being hit by the rocks, and throw them again? It may not look like it’s possible most of the time, but I’ve come very close on numerous occasions. I’m thinking it has to do with strider’s positioning after the throw as well as Doom’s rock patterns.

So I would like for people to mess around with timing the clockw0rk combo differently or changing strider’s positioning after doom’s rocks hit to perhaps facilitate an air throw. If this has been discussed or refuted before, I apologize a thousand times to you and also to myself for wasting time writing this and making myself look like a n00b. Shoult, I know you’ll probably be on this faster than I can say, " Jk, it doesn’t work."

LOCdown

thinking of a new scenario is how you come up with game breaking scenarios. Whenever you get a nice idea w\ strider, go to training mode and work it out. It helps to know a little bit about the game engine when you go into training mode.

if you keep thinking of new shit and testing it out in training mode, you’re eventually going to have something different.

any person who’s experienced against s\d is rarely going to fall for the trap and make it hard for you to attempt it. Its what you do inbetween that makes the fight better for you.

you got it. Never do a combo that ends with doom rocks. This throw setup however seems like its one of those things that will work though but they are random as you know.

there are some generic combo that are appilicable to end of doom rocks but nothing to appealing. Your usually better off trying something else.

hmm my defintion of the clockwork combo is actually the whole thing.

its

orbs hit, when the meter reaches time call drones, dash full magic series, drones hit, dash c.lk, launch, teleport, call doom, air throw.

this particular setup always uses that doom call after the teleport instead of before. The #'s have to reset before you call doom so teleporting then calling doom is the only way it’ll work.

I don’t know which way to actually call it so i’m just going to type it out whenever I need to mention it.

theres something called twitch guard in marvel. Whenever you throw something on the screen and the opponent is holding back, they will go into block animation even though nothing is touching them. When the opponet is in that “state” they can’t be thrown. This can be caused by anything, a jab, a projectile an assists that hangs out for a while doom ron for example.

you can test this in training mode with the dummy on manual. The cpu actually lets you toss them during twitch guard which won’t work against a human opponent.

there is a way to actually throw during twitch guard and thats if they’re holding fwd. The setup your using can be blocked by simply blocking. FP will come out instead. Since you have doom out there before you throw, its causing twitch guard.

i’m more than certain that clockw0rk knows about that so its why he always does teleport, doom throw. Since the throw is before doom, they have tech out as their only option. When you do it right, only teching is the way out. They can only air jab out, when you fuck it up I think.

the setup your using for your air throw into doom can be easily avoided by blocking strider after the teleport. It’ll only work when they block and don’t switch directions blocking.

if there was no twitch guard strider could activate in the corner, end with a a bomb so the bomb is above them as orbs end, rh throw into the bomb, launch and ender. That shit is beyond broken because it’ll do 50+% life and it could be a 50\50. Basically if stider could do that, he’d be up higher on the tier ladder just based on that corner setup

I probably spent a few hours trying to think up a reset in the corner that dig big life. Practice all your combos on dummy manual!!!

actually it does work. It is a double throw setup but its not practical since theres some doom rocks that cause twitch guard.

AHh, thanks for the explanation Shoult. I was aware what twitch guard was, I just didn’t know that you couldn’t be thrown while in twitch guard. So I was missing out on that fundamental piece of game mechanics. Thank you for clearing that up. And I have been practicing my combos without the dummy on manual, so I’ll make sure to do that from now on.

np

I always explain what twitch guard is because thats the only name I know it by. I have no clue what cali
y are calling it. Most people get confused whenever I mention that so I usually just type out what it is.

what does cali call it?

instead of the “clockw0rk” throw combo you should be focusing on striders 50\50 activations setups. Thats how you make the most of your meter. I used to hor that throw reset but now it gets teched. 50\50’s are wheres its @. A nice early orb sequence followed by a 50\50 setup and full orbs after that is 70%+ life for 2 bars. End the pattern the gave you the 50\50 with a reset throw combo and they’re dead. Essentially you hit them once and put them into a 50\50 and you’re killing them for that first hit. Its magnus w\ strider.

strider has quite a few 50\50 setups but all you really need @ most is 2-3. Its 50\50 so take your pick lol.

sounds to me like your talking about block stun. when your put in block stun you cant be grabbed out of block, only when the person isnt in block stun ie. being in neutral state of movement or walking forward. when assist lingers on screen it causes the opponent to go into block animation and during this time they are ungrabable by anything, its even worse against cable cause he has an extra frame of block so its really hard to grab him when using an assist to back you up even if you wait. twitch grab as you may call it is also the reason why guard breaks dont work when people call drones or rocks with doom (unless the person blatently push blocks) because it extends the block animation and doesnt leave enough room to let your guard get broken.

I’ve only heard it referred to as block stun. Ever since the days of MSHvSF people where I play have been calling it that. Though I think Twitch Guard makes more sense, since blockstun has the connotation of one actually blocking an intentional attack.

yea me and some friends have started using twictch guard and block stun as 2 seperate terms. It does make sense to use it like that since it is 2 different kinds of block.

1 hit kill strider

if s\d is going to be your main, this is the only thing you should ever think about. How do I let strider destroy a team in one hit? as of now I don’t know if anyone has ever done it. The closest thing i’ve seen to it is devil x’s double orb combo which is a staple combo that every s\d player should master. That particular combo is on youtube. I don’t know how to do it quite yet but I will learn it. You do need sentinel to actually pull it off so having him alive is a plus.

first pionif you do the double orb combo with 1 reset, it should kill 1 character.

once you lose sent, all you have left are 50\50 options so this becomes plan B in the stirder fight.

strider does have 50\50 setups after a hit orb pattern. Its kind of easy to create your own so just get creative.

your goal after orbs hit is to combo back into an orb pattern. Since strider can 50\50 behind shit, this should be your goal.

**max potential 50\50 **is being able to 50\50 behind the bomb. Say orbs hit, you do some type of combo that lets you activate and 50\50 behind the bomb for big life. So you have orbs while attempting the 50\50. If it gets blocked, you still have trap option and j+lk, qcf+lk. It should also be unescapeable and no hole for an assist. When its that tight, its a good setup. I had a setup for something like this but it was random because of the doom rocks… doing the bomb 50\50 with reactivations is the only way to drop a character off 2 bars. 50\50 w\o the bomb is only 75% max with the potential to kill with a reset. bomb 50\50 is flat out dead character. Minus sent\juggy. Average defense or weaker characters.

imo, strider should be to touch any player 70% of the time. With the instant overhead mastered plus the follow up potential which should be a 50\50 activation pattern, they’ll be so scared of it that going low will happen. Then you hit them with a ground 50\50 reactivation pattern. The only way for any player to block striders instant overhead is anticipate it. Its that damn fast. Give em a second to anticapte it and go low. I still can’t do the 50\50 everytime right but I realize what door it’ll open for strider.

basic strider mixup isn’t going to hit someone good or above average. You need his instant overhead setup. It just has to be something that you do every game.

eventually something that every s\d player realizes is that I don’t have enough bar to do any damage. w\ this concept applied to s\d, you don’t need much meter to do big life. 1.5 or 2 @ the most. 50\50’s are the best possible way to use your meter in the cases where a solid trap pattern won’t kill a character.

since people kill strider in 1 hit, its time for him to do the same.

its impossible to block a 50\50 activation setup, then a 50\50 trap rep. You have 2 chances to fuck them up before they’re able to move.

strider j+lk is 2 frames, and his c.lk is 3. Impossible to react too.

can u PM me what exactly is this bomb reset thing and 50/50 ? there’s a big tourney coming up and i need to add this to my arsenal of rape :smiley:

and aside from one “random team” tourney, i’ve never really used clockwork in serious play … any advice for what to look out for or do in tourneys with team clock … particular match ups to play precautiously or wtv, casual is casual and u tend to be more loose and try flashy but tourney play what should I risk random resets or maximum chip ?

I explained the bomb reset and 50\50 in the post. Just read it better. Bomb resests is something that I haven’t been able to completely figure out so I couldn’t really tell you how to do it. I do have some setups but they suck because they aren’t tight enough.

theres 2 types of 50\50’s. One 50\50 is being able to do striders instant overhead or going low during orbs. The next one is activation 50\50’s which are retrap patterns that are 50\50 w\in themselves.

watch out for cyke\cable\psy assists. Those ones can beat doom clean.
play patiently and DON’T get pinned yourself. Stay mobile but with the ability to do something if you have too. Teleport to the same side every now and then just to let your opponent know whats up.

strider can reset safely only during orbs and a few patterns outside of that. However, those things can easily back fire on you so its not really worth it.

IMO, theres only 2 teams that seems strider can take advantage of. MSS and RO. S\D can rape mss because they don’t have an AA. S\D does great against ro because strider can go to town on cable if you play patiently. I’ve always thought that ssd should be able to take out msp if you can get around magnus.

when you fight against magneto always go for hit confirmable HSF combo’s. Get that guy out of there.

from what ive seen row beats team clock. just having the cable assist as magnus is bad enough and magnus as a battery for cable is even worse. mag cable fights s/d well but for either player patience is the key. only thing is that if mag makes a mistake he can get put into a situation where he has to take block damage but can still get out when a hole appears eventually one will. with strider if you mess up against magnus he destroys strider and thats it. i respect s/d so much but just dont fuck.

if magnus gets dropped on ro, cable/rp is shitty

u gotta get ur sent on point so u can use cable aaa to get rid of shit thats in your way.

even that kinda goes south if the strider player is careful.

that match-up can swing either way for each team based on what happens with mag vs sent in the beginning. big disadvantages for the whole fight come from the first two that throw down

only teams that have trouble with strider doom, anything without aaa