Any 3rd character that is going to join forces with S/D is alway going to be handicap in some way. Even Sentinel is handicap in some way because he cannot rely on chaining HSF one after another and needs to save those bars for Strider. Strider assists isn’t going to help anyone. So that means that other character has to be compatible with Doom.
To be perfectly honest, I think Ironman is S/D best 3rd character. He works so well with either of them. A hit Ouroborus leads to a tag in IM with infinite. Getting hit by Doom rocks sends them in the air which leads to another IM infinite when he’s on point. The infinite itself builds crazy amounts of meter for the S/D trap. IM anti-air assist is damn good against jump-ins and can give flying Sentinels a hard time. I’m surprise that I never seen anybody uses this team. There is so much potential to be found with IM for this team, that after 7 years of MvC2 we still don’t see anybody really trying him out in tourneys.
I don’t care what viscant\clock say. All though I do respect there opinion and listen, I never take anything as fact from any top player unless its proven to work. Learn the game and think for yourself.
I’m currently only playing three strider/doom teams seriously right now. They are Storm/S/D, Sent/S/D, and Black Heart/S/D. All of the teams have their strong points but still are not entirely balenced.
For example, Black Heart/Stider/Doom in my opinion is especially good against Sent-Storm teams. This is largely due to striders weak points aginst storm. As soon as Orbs are attempted she will run away if not properly locked down. Thus nullifying about 60% of the general strider stradegy. BH aa really shines here locking her down, and her rush down isn’t nearly as fast as say Mags so Doom AA is good enough to keep her out of your face when needed. This team overall in theroy and general gameplay does well against Santhrax Storm/Sent/Capcom.BH/Stirder/Doom traps that team really well due to the tracking AA, and since doom beats out commando. Team has problems against Mags and better cables, BH just can’t take them. BH should start first, build meter, trap with doom, and then DHC.
Storm/Strider/Doom is an awesome team and currently my favorite, however not my best. Storm works awesome with Doom since she is really quick in the air. She can even build decent meter while trapping with him. A basic stradegy would be to rush in, call doom in their face and j.fp air dash the other side and continue to j.fp. Builds decent meter, and chips like hell as usual with doom. Another great thing to do is rush in, throw some punches so they think you are tyring to rush down, call doom, and then go right into lp.typhoons xx hail storm. Either will cause great chip, or will bait your opponents AA into the hail storm. Overall probably one of the best s/d teams since typhoon assist also helps strider, and storm/doom is nice combo since storm really has no bad match ups. One big problem though, Storm and strider take damage sooo bad that your team is just really weak stamina wise to have the two together. Its not even worth playing if your opponent is a monster cable player or storm player. Even if your strider is really good, one bad storm assist call and she’ll eat hail or ahvb, which will most likly kill her unless you start strider first. Even worse if strider eats it also since it might kill him also, so one super leading to two dead characters.
Sent/Strider/Doom, what more can I say. Probably the most well balenced team. Sent assist is great for going into the trap, and beefs up the team so much stamina wise since he takes the least damage in the game. Also Sent kicks ass on point, just has problems against cable. Just got to try and match strider up with him.
i have to disagree about the storm with no hail. Storm does good of course on matrix and thrax because of sent and AAA. But storm does not rely on hail, its a cheap move and can completely throw the game in her favor but storm is definitley good to start on that team for the fact that she can build meter EXTREMELY fast for strider in a safe manner. And if that just furthers your point of her needing meter than think about the options storm has of running her ass off and storm can run with just about any team depending on what team she is fighting (except against sent/aaa she has to fight more). her lightning attack game with rocks is godly her chip game with doom is rediculous even without hail storm ie. typhoons and rocks, her rush down is rediculously impossible to block sometimes, she provides a safe dhc either in or out for you characters when low on health, and she is handicapped to no character seeing as how she has the solution to every situation she can possibly be put in. but once again this is my opinion and i respect the fact that you stand firmly by yours shoult, once again i am not a s/d player but i do know ALOT about the team and its weaknesses. i do think storm/s/d is a tourney worthy team as well it just works differently.
Strider is cool, but he loses bad to good AAA like Capcom and psylocke. Against Strider, never super jump. It’s funny how in this particular match up, normal jumping works best. Sentinel can take care of Strider easily by spit xx fly, spit xx fly while doing stomp patterns to snuff out Doom. Best way to escape orbs with Sentinel is to sj to the highest peek and do cancel rocket punches for like two reps. Strider can’t really do anything to storm if she fills the screen with alot of crap like drones and typhoons. Hailstorms are perfect against Strider.
Cable just has to call drones and normal jump back. If Strider teleports, all cable needs to do is lp gunshot AHVB. TK viper beams with drones can get rid of animal whoring. All cable has to do is play basic. With Magneto, rush the shi't out of him. Hurt doom a bit and avoid getting trampled by animals. Bait teleports and counter assist alot. Striders in that situation would be confued and in a panic. This is the best way to force out mistakes. If you have capcom and psy, bait them into capcom as it hurts alot. Best time to catch Striders with capcom is to normal jump back while assisting as soon as he teleports. Hope this helped Strider kids!
for u strider players try to avoid doing anything that can lead up to this, beware of these basic counters.
The only benefit Storm has for S/D is an effective battery. Without Hailstorm and without LS she cannot do solid damage meaning she does not carry a threat. You can mistakes against her and still have pretty good heath. Take into account that “big damage” is her weak point. It has alway been my belief that what benefits S/D for a 3rd character is someone who can provide an effective battery at the same time do solid damage. Storm will only give S/D 1 of the 2. That’s why I think she is only “OK” for the team.
Unless you can beast with Strider all the time without making a mistake(stamina problem) then be my guess. However it’s always important to have insurance. Sentinel for instance is one of the best character for the team. Although he is also handicap in which he cannot rely on mouth, punch xxx HSF(repeat), he can still build meter and do solid damage without it. With that kind of benefit it takes out stress for Strider.
Notice that Storm would not be a god tier without LS and Hailstorm use to her advantage. With LS she can DHC it into massive damage. With Hailstorm she can randomly hit the point character while he call an assist. Both get hit. Point character dies. Storm rushes in. Roundhouse. Dead assist. So it’s kind of rediculous to think that she doesn’t need them.
not around here, its all about storm in NY and she deals pretty good damage on her own seeing as how top players from here do good damage with infinites or 5 fierce combos with out any supers. her mixups are rediculous and worse than magnetos alot of people just havent seen beastly storms. i dont want to take it out of context but i know what you mean about her just serving as a battery but i only talk about the experience i have from watching good storms play with doom and doing massive damage off of 1 hit and her priority is unmatched.
i agree that storm/doom is good, i also think that she fills the slot to *build bar for strider
that doesn’t mean she has an easy go at it.
j, i know that you’re playing vs better players than most of the people reading these threads…but…
you still can’t deny that storm is going to be on the receiving end of free offense.
easy counter call helper for magneto, sent and for storm. those characters need only stick close to her with proper assisting and then use 50/50 offense or basic cheeze to put her in a potentially bad situation.
i agree that once storm is free from a bad scenario, she’s free to build some more bar. she doesn’t get locked down like the robot and she’s runnin wild again. Thats nice. I don’t think she adds much to the team chemistry as a helper, she doesn’t limit the angles that your opponent can rush from:sad:
she functions in a similar way to sentinel, minus all of the ground control that sent provides.
I can’t believe that storm/doom will just run around blocking out, because honestly i believe that vs good comp, that lack of a defensive helper puts her in a bad spot each time she lands from building bar. instead of landing and reclaiming control of the ground vs mag/psy ect, she only has a couple of options if she wants to get back into a neutral position vs the rush. storm and strider have to protect doom like madmen, that shit is really difficult to do with both of them(meter issues are a bitch!). I think that when she sj’s and baits(her safest option imo), she opens herself up to another cross-up game that doesn’t work in her favor vs good competetion.
that team is a specialist team, like 3 people on the planet can pick it in tourney play ftw, eddie fucking lee pops right into my mind because he has patience, a little defense and he’s really careful about his doom placement. even he gets his doom wiped out of the way and he’s stuck blocking:sad:
I don’t have as much experience vs great storms as you do j360, help me out here, where are the benefits of picking this team vs somone who can REALLY RTSD??
i totally agree with what you say about storm lacking defense on the team seeing as how the reason sentinel is there is to make up for the lack of defense strider has. i admit storm on s/d really does not work against good players because the team chemistry itself isnt too solid. but i still think its better than cable/s/d cause having 2 characters that RELY on meter in one team is never good.
cable is a liability to the team because of the fact that he NEEDS meter in order to be effective and cannot build it safely enough to support both his needs and striders needs.
in conclusion storm/s/d is lacking the defense that sent/s/d has thats why i dont put it over team clock, but i just suggest that cable/strider/doom aint all that great cause even eddie has problems playing that against people around here (he doesnt play to much anymore) and has problems trapping due to lack of meter thats why he holds meter forever just and sometimes doesnt even get to use it.
once strider gets the bar on this team though its a problem which can be achieved relatively fast. 100% assist kill off 1 bar is just beyond beastly which is one of the main reasons I put it over storm s\d and if you start strider you have a somewhat functional team. Ontop of that if you play smart and TRY not to get baited, strider is really deadly on this squad. Everyone gets baited from time to time.
I beat mixup occasionally with it and my cable is horrible its just the fact that I have a great AA and I can smoke assists off of it. If you don’t stop me, i’ll go hiroshima on your buddies.
on s\c\d.
start strider and let him beast and die while @ the same time build some bar.
Once strider is dead, cable can use all the meter he wants because theres no on really there he needs to build bar for. If you have faith in your cable, this is a solid gameplan but the lack of AA hurts anyone.
no AA = option tree to death. Its really frustrating to lose like that. You can’t do shit but take it or don’t pick s\d.
this is gonna sound really noobish but yeah, i’m use to playing the top 4 gods and since i don’t have time to play as much i’m playing my initial team again and sticking with it, sent/strider/doom … its pretty sad when its a strider based team and my best characters in order are sent then doom then strider >_>
I manage to pull of teleports easily in practice but come matches or tourney i’m like half and half, I don’t know if its a lack of in game expereince or i haven’t practiced it much yet, but i start with a nice lead then DHC to strider, get 3/4 of the way to victory then lose. I’m not asking for advice or anything, i just wanted to know how were you’re striders at first because right now, i’d probably be better off with sent/cable/doom >_> but strider is too fun to play !
I had a pretty decent scrubby strider back in the day. Those teleports are just shoryukens. I’m an OG when it comes to street fighter so dp’s are automatic by now.
every strider player has gone 3\4 of the way and lost. I’ve done worse. Like 95% of the way to killing my opponent and lost. It happens to everyone. Especially w\ strider because its very very very easy to lose in a split second.
once the victory is yours or if one more trap pattern should gurantee you a win, just stay back and play safe. Don’t do any risky shit.
stick with ssd till you learn it. Don’t cheat your strider by running to a weaker strider team. I run to s\c\d when I feel like i’m having a hard time fighting w\ sent because it creates a different kind of s\d team. Its better in some ways but not overall.
hey shoult or anyone, someone told me I should learn to play with a team like Storm/Sent/Cyclops and “understand how the game works” before I attempt strider/doom. SD was the first team I began to play about a year ago, and I’m pretty good but I keep getting beasted on at my arcade. I have my moments when I get some momentum and some wins, but it’s an uphill battle. What do you think? Is strider/doom for people with experience with other teams?
btw this is my first post on the strider forums, so if you’re wondering who the f i am, i understand
I don’t care who you are as long as your looking for help or have something useful to contribute. I’m eventually going to give up this team as my main soon and i’m trying to spread a little knowledge around before I forget how to play it.
nah you don’t need the other teams to learn s\d. All though it may help, I didn’t take that path and my s\d is pretty solid.
to be honest, s\d is the only real team i’m capable of playing. It was the first team I learned and its taught me marvel. Since s\d isn’t all that great, it will teach you many things faster than the great teams won’t. For instance, s\d has no real AA on it so defense is a must in order to survive. You basically have to block out to gain any kind of momentum back. The better teams like s\s\cyke have an AA which gives you more of an advantage on defense. You can call your AA when your in a bad spot and reposition. However, AA’s can be baited and you’ll get re-rushed or put into bad situation. Blocking out is much more effective than calling an AA because you get to use your assist after you’re done blocking.
also not having an AA will teach you how to play defensive option tree. Once the squad gets pinned, it CAN be over because rush down is tricky to block consistently but if you minimize the situations where you get put in bad spot, you’ll be in block stun less and have more time to be free.
99% of the people who play marvel, play an offensive style. The game is just too fast and its so hard to block it. Since the majority of the community plays that style, doing the complete opposite @ a high level will give those 99% of that type of player a hard ass time.
defense is god in marvel and picking a team with no AA is the best way to really learn it. That and actually fight awesome rush down players. When you transer into a better team, you can take that defensive knowledge and apply it to a better team with better defensive options.
ontop of that, s\d forces you to learn matchups. S\D has to approach just about every fight differently. Other teams like s\s\cyke or msp have rushdown advantages and instead of learning the matchups, rushdown will take over. It’ll win you the match but it doesn’t teach you shit and if you run into a better opponent who can block, rush down doesn’t mean shit. You will run into something eventually and die.
also s\d is strictly based on priority during non orbs. Theres very little strider can do w\o orbs against top squads so playing the prioritiy game forces you to think ahead and anticpate to gain the advantage. Doing this strat w\ a better team is much more effective.
some advance things that s\d has taught me is how to manipulate guard cancel timing and a full understanding of guard stun. Which is bascially the beginning of high level marvel. Both of those are techinques that will help anyone with any team.
s\d is extremely weak in some aspects of its dynamics. Ironically, those weak spots are important parts of playing “good” marvel with the better teams. However, s\d as your main will maker you a weaker player because the better teams can’t teleport. That teleport stops alot of rush down tactics. Learning how to air dash properly and position around assists are also extremely important parts of marvel. Thats something that s\d can’t teach you. You have to face the fact that s\d will never win EVO. The highest its ever placed was 5th and that was quite a few years ago. The game has advanced and rush down is deadlier than ever. Not to mention that more and more people are beginning to figure out s\d. S\D is by no means a push over squad but its not going to win consistently against top players @ high level play.
**
stick w\ s\d as your learning tool. Keep running it until you master the team. You know when you got it mastered when you can lose and develop a new startegy the next time around and have it work. S\D will teach you many things that even some players will never understand because they’ve ran great teams the whole time but don’t make it your only team. Learn a storm\sent squad and a mag\storm squad.**
Thanks Shoult. I’ve been thinking about what you said and I’ve decided that I’m going to stick with strider/doom with my main as long as it still gives me the same rush I get playing it against top squads. The way that most people don’t respect the power of s/d wants to make me get even better with it. Though I won’t be able to win for free, running s/d would make victory even more sweet right?
I have to start landing hits though. My trap pattern’s alright, but I’m not doing enough damage to get a huge lead and keep it. Any advice on how to go for some hits with strider ( overheads, cross ups…) I hope you guys haven’t gone over this before… I know the clockw0rk combo and the bomb 50/50 and the basic assist kill but that’s it
the problem with storm/s/d is that storm has to rely on doom pretty much against monster teams like sent/capcom or something similar…doom will just get fucked up
LOL, yea thats the same way I looked @ it when I first started losing w\ it. Alot of people never respected it and when I got good w\ it, I was able to start cracking skulls. I knew s\d was good from watching clock play it. Besides, theres nothing better than chipping your opponent to death and the look of disgust on some peoples faces afterwards.
s\d is a valuable learning tool. Since the team has no abuseable tactics that can do massive amounts of damage, it forces you to play smart and think about what you’re doing rather than abusing rushdown. All though rush down is good, just using it for easy hits isn’t much of startegy.
sorry for such long posts but your asking questions that take a big answer.
the trap itself is an irreplaceable tool on this team. It has to be mastered in order to apply the right kinds of pressure. Once your opponent knows that you can trap @ will, they will try everything to get out. When they guard cancel, they are forced to go to neutral for a little bit which means strider can go low for an easy hit. Ontop of that most people like to smack the AA button to get strider off of them. In that case strider can step back and go for an assist kill setup.
its also important to know some meter building techniques and how much bar each trap pattern will do. That way you can plan your attacks based on how much you may need for the next few situations that may come up. You can easily build 1 bar back if things play out correctly after an orb pattern.
it seems like you already have a nice grasp of what the team can do. Landing hits w\ s\d is the hardest part. The usual strider mixup pattern which is activate and pin, high teleport and overhead on the way down, then go low as you land will get blocked eventually. Its a repititive pattern that strider really can’t manipulate.
This is why mastering is overhead during orbs is vital. During orbs, j+lk, tap lp, qcf+lk, mash punches on the way down. Doing this with 2 fingers is much easier. I use my thumb and index finger to do this. Thumb for j+lk, and index for the lp. I roll it like a kara in 3rd striker if your familiar w\ that game. An early overhead during orbs followed by a combo into a trap pattern is around 50% life. I highly recommedn practicing the overhead scoot during orbs on storm. Since she is one of the tiniest characters of the top tiers, if you can master it on her, you should be able to do it on anyone but its not easy to master. I’ve been trying it for 3+ months on and off and I still can’t do it 100% of the time.
once you master that your opponents will eventually start blocking high to stop that overhead. Once you get them doing that, go low and really hurt them. Oh yea, striders overhead is faster than magnetos\storms. @ most striders j+lk as an overhead is 3-4 frames I think. Its impossible to block on reaction. It has to be anticapted.
the whole fight isn’t just strider. If your running sent\s\d and sent can do a good bit of life, strider can clean up and take over mid game for free. Its only when he has to comeback that landing hits becomes vital. Try to keep yourself ahead on life as often as you can.
you don’t always have to land hits on the point character. Fucking up the assists can be just as good as landing a hit on point. They’ll be less likely to call their assist if you just did 50% to it. Especially an AA. It means you can get easy semi-trap patterns that don’t require bar. Those patterns are about 10% life and if you activate and pin again, its around 30% chip for 1 bar. You have to understand how much chip patterns will do so when you get low on bar, you can judge how much you may need to be effective throughout the rest of the match.
lastly, you don’t have to do all your damage during orbs. All though it does good life most of the time after a hit orb, striders normal game is where you’ll probably land most of your hits @. Like I said earlier, the trap is just used for pressure. You should always go for the hit during orbs but blocking strider isn’t exactly like blocking magnus. Striders lp has pretty good priority and his sword is invicincible. C.fp Is probably your best AA in a situation that you’ll need an AA fast.
landing those hits are mostly understanding the fight your up against.
I’ve spent the last few days trying to practice that overhead… it’s pretty tricky. I can get it pretty cleanly on sent, just mags and storm are hard as hell. Hitting LK RIGHT as you hop off the ground is pretty hard to do 100%… I’m sure it’ll pay off though. Thanks for explaining the overhead to me, I’d seen it in the clock vs. justin wong video and always though the overhead was the qcf lk. woops.
As for punishing the assists… I rarely find myself in a situation where i can punish an assist. Here in SD it seems i fight legions of MSS teams. Maybe that’s just my faults as a player, but I’m not really finding ways ( besides from sheer luck in positioning or the other guy’s errors) to punish assists that aren’t psy or cyclops. With sentinel he just comes out with that damn rocket punch and then he’s gone, and magneto is in my face. At least cyclops flies forward a bit so you can walk under him, and I lose to a lot of MSS teams because it ends up with my doom vs his near full life sentinel, which is not good.
Ideally I should have sent to fight sent… but I start him against this team and magneto and storm do a number on him. If strider manages to get in, storm runs all day like a ho, and oftentimes my Sent gets either Rom’d to death by magneto, Magnetic tempest---->hailed or Lightning Storm----> HSF’d (curse the dhc power of MSS!!!) and dies so Strider has no drones to stop aerial rushes. Would it be a good idea to start strider against MSS? Keep in mind this is coming from a combination of my sentinel being pretty basic and these dudes MSS’s being beastly ( some of them have beaten clockw0rk, or so they say). Shoult, if you or anyone could pass along some knowledge of fighting MSS I’d be very grateful. Sorry again if this has been talked about before, though my questions are little more specific than just general strats.
How would you deal with people who constantly lightning storm outta the screen and charge up their super bar? Sometimes I just try switching out of strider and use cable and try to shoot storm down, but I really want to learn how to defeat this tactic with Strider and Dr.Doom.
its just the fact that I have a great AA and I can smoke assists off of it. If you don’t stop me, i’ll go hiroshima on your buddies.